Messages

[decoder ring]

I moved this off the "Starter" thread because it has nothing to do with that topic. I also removed my related posts there and Stu, I recommend you remove your messages over there so that, in the future, owners don't pick up bad info from your incorrect statements in those posts.

Sometimes with Ken one requires a scorecard or translator decoder ring.

...I just recently "discovered" the secret to Ken's invention of "A" series engines.

...there IS an XPB engine, there IS NOT an XPA engine!!!

The article here explains the key difference(s) between the original, "A", "A(C)" and "B", "B(C)" series engines.
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/message/114243

Stu, I believe that you like many owners are not "up on" your Universal models.  Owners are sometimes confused about their engines and do not know what it means when their engine tag says "A" or "AC" (actually an "A(C)" series but Westerbeke typically omits the parentheses on engine tags.)

No Stu, A-series engines are not an invention (other than Universal's that is.)

I get disheartened by this "XPA" thing, because it confuses the issue of an XPB

No worries, you and others can un-confuse yourselves by reading and studying my write-up that I linked to.  Just perhaps if we understood the series we will provide better advice to owners with other than an "Oshkosh" Universal.

As you often lament: Owners should learn everything about THEIR OWN engine -- Key to that is understanding whether it is an "A series" like M-25XPA (or 35A) or "A(C) series" like M-25XPA(C) (or 35A(C), especially when troubleshooting but also when sourcing certain parts.  Some of the differences are skin deep and some differences go deeper.  Hence, that was one reason for my Deep Dive to summarize the key differences between the (Oshkosh, WI) Universal models vs. the (Avon, MA) Universal series ("A", "A(C), and "B").  That write-up is (thank's for coining an appropriate phrase) your Decoder Ring to the differences between those series if you want to use it. 

No Stu, whichever engine panel Catalina installed has nothing to do with the different engine series.

If [Ken] would just type M25XP space space space A(C), it would be much clearer, i.e., M25XP  A

Stu, I believe that I should continue to use Universal's nomenclature (M25-XP, M25-XPA, M25-XPA(C) and M-35, M-35A, M-35A(C).)  Feel free to invent your own with as many <spaces> or different punctuation as you see fit.  "Your Posts, Your Choice."
And if you strongly believe that Wb ought to retroactively adopt M-25XP<space><space><space>A and M-35<space><space><space>A, you can suggest that right here: help@westerbeke.com.
Naturally, I'll change to the new nomenclature as soon as Wb adopts your suggestion(s.)

One can also (as you also oftentimes lament) just RTFM(s) (on your Wiki Site) for edification that Universal produced "M-25XPA" and "M-25XPA(C)", among other "A" series engines. (Again, the full list is at the bottom)

Non-crimped, soldered-only connections are IMPROPER on a vessel.  NOT because ABYC doesn't approve them, and if you "don't know" proper marine wiring it's best to do your research before stating that they are "equivalent".

That standard is no different than the electrical code that now says you have to have a plug on a range hood or a dishwasher. They want it to be able to be unplugged and replaced. How many times do you replace your range hood or replace the dishwasher in your home.  The difference is that these LED lights last a long time If I have to change them Ill cut the wire and use another shrink wrap.

INCORRECT!
We are not talking about crimped bullet terminals or 1/4" quick disconnect terminals (which would be for easy removal.)  We are talking about crimped/adhesive heat shrink BUTT Terminals. 

Solder-only connections are not allowed per ABYC for a reason and should not be used.  ABYC does permit crimped-solder butts that are heated to seal the heat shrink and the solder flows AFTER they are crimped.

 if you are unfamiliar with proper marine electrical methods, it's always helpful to ask before doing.

John

Understood!  Thx for the claificatrion 

Rich

See the bottom of the last page of Rodd's article.
https://pbase.com/mainecruising/universal_wiring_harness_upgrade&page=all


Go ahead and bookmark Rodd's pages - you will refer to them often!
https://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects
https://marinehowto.com/


I'm troubled why the engine model is such a question.  Regardless of what 👨 ual was aboard or what a PO said, the engine model is painfully obvious!

Don't think I'd use epoxy on a cutlass bearing installation !

As I said, you need to wax the shell so the 'poxy releases.  That's how yards do it.

Ron,  the concept is to replace the missing annular space, not to adhere the bearing to the strut (i.e., the yard used the incorrect product.  Which of course, is not shocking.)
Think about it - why would it be acceptable to use epoxy to fix a sloppy rudder tube but not a sloppy strut?

I recently removed the old worn cutlass bearing which was a beast to get out even with a strut pro. I believe there were two set screws on the port side and 1 that I missed on the stbd. The bearing and inside of the strut were full of buildup and I gently cleaned it all up with a wire brush. I just went to put the new bearing in place and it slid in by hand with ease. It is far tighter on the shaft than in the strut so without set screws it is just spinning freely in the strut. Are a couple set screws enough to hold this in place and is this normal? I expected it to be much more of a press fit. Measured with calipers and they are the same size. The old set screws were trash so I drilled them out and re taped the holes... hopefully there's enough meat to hold.

The common way to fix that is to wax the OD of the bearing and reinstall it with epoxy.

West System solution with graphite impregnanted epoxy. You coat the rudder stock in mold release, put the rudder back in the tube, and then inject rudder column with epoxy in three different places. Pray that you put on  enough mold release so that there are no bare spots.

I did the graphite/epoxy fix - one of the best fixes I have done.

After waxing the stock just exercise the wheel until the epoxy kicks and there's no problem.
I didn't and the next day had a mild myocardial infarction when the rudder stock and tube were one non-moving part.  
A little persuasion freed it up. 

I even installed two zerk fittings thinking I'd lube it with waterproof grease.  I never have.

Ron, the Westerbeke mounts have a 5 inch mounting "bolt" spacing. Rather than drill 8 new holes in the stringers I'd like to replace these mounts with ones with the same footprint.
John

John

If you are pulling the engine its no big deal  to epoxy-fill 8 holes and install the Vetus isolators and have something standard for the future and reasonable $ than find the $$$$ 5-inch ones.

rob : Look around the internet, because I doubt that Westerbeke makes their own engine mounts!!

A thought

I have hunted for "Westerbeke's" engine isolators for years and have not (yet) located the manufacturer.  I'm wondering if they are proprietary and who's making them.

Rich

She's an M-35.  You should hook up a hi temp alarm - thats what the brass pipe plug in the thermostat cap is for.

Ron,
by the color she looks like an M-35A but the wiring isn't 35A.  Did Universal use that color before Westerbeke changed the wiring?

You will need to determine gear ratio's for an M35 to get pump GPM's

Note:

The ratio is the same for all engines.  The fuel camshaft that drives the pump is always equals 1/2 the engine RPM (the IP spits fuel to each cylinder every-other revolution.

JMP markets their impellers as replacements for the Sherwood impellers.

Wondering....  Where did you find that info the JMP markets its impeller for the G903/G908? 
JMP told me the opposite, and the published pump info states that "internal parts" are not compatible.

Depco and Hansen Marine both advised me not to use the Ob for engines above 30 HP.

True, but the backstory explains what the average owner doesn't know.

A condition of Hansen's distributorship agreement with Westerbeke FORBIDS it from selling or recommending an Oberdorfer pump for a Universal engine.  It also may not advertise any part for less than Westerneke retail. 

Therefore, it's not shocking that Hansen finds a reason to recommend a Westerbeke part over an Ob part.

Technically, being an authorized Westerbeke dealer, Depco is also prohibited from selling a non-Westerbeke part to "knowingly" be used on a Westerbeke engine (I'm not claiming they don't get away doing it.)

I had discussed the flow question with the (former) Depco marine pump manager, who admitted that he had no data or known complaints or failures, or science-based justification that supported the claim not to use it on a 4-cylinder.  None whatsoever - it is just what (hearsay) they "understood."

Randy in LA (the Gulf is pretty warm) has no issue whatsoever with the Ob pump on his 35B.

The mere fact that the Sw pumps more, is sufficient fodder for Westerbeke to instill fear in owners that its part is better and the Ob is deficient.

Facts do not play into it, fear does — even if both pump sufficient water.

JTSO, based on fact not fear.

That's an aftermarket part.  Not something put on at the factory so there may be lots of variety on what we have on our boats.  May be on with mounting tape or a couple of screws depending on the brand. 
Jim

Looks like it is glued on. How to get off?

A heat gun to soften the glue and a putty knife to lift it off. 
Could it be double-sided tape by chance?

Has anyone confirmed (i.e., measured) their starter draw?

I know 80 or so is the rule of thumb but Rodd indicates that the max would be MUCH higher (which says to me more than 2x, maybe 3x?) 
Unfortunately, Rodd hadn't put actual numbers to an M-25; only to a larger 4-cylinder Westerbeke.

Thx!