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Messages - KWKloeber

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Main Message Board / Re: m25xp pipe threads
« on: Yesterday at 11:26:54 PM »
I forgot to mention the hi-temp alarm switch.  New Universal T-stat caps have a 1/8 NPT port, but you can drill/tap an old cap.

Zoom in on below and you can see the switch sticking out the stbd side.  Drill/tap a hole about 3 o'clock so it doesn't interfere with the temp sender or cap bolt.
You can drill now and plug it and install the wiring anytime down the road.   Any questions just hollar.

Main Message Board / Re: chain plate studs and bolts; coax cable
« on: Yesterday at 10:16:20 PM »

Dunno if the below helps or hurts but this was the answer when I asked a professional in the field of RF and cabling (who also happens to be a Catalina owner.) 

[Edited] - Cliff, LMR-240 coax is 50-ohm impedance (not resistance) which is what you want for marine VHF (155 - 175 MHz frequency) (it doesn't need to be exactly 50, 48-51 is fine -- the 50 "standard" was selected long ago as a compromise.)

Max signal loss (attenuation) for different coax is listed here:

- Ken

Times Microwave Systems' LMR-240   
It has the same outer diameter of RG-8X Mini, yet offers improved loss characteristics as well as all the other benefits of LMR cable. Same loss as RG-213/U" 

Or for even more flexibility, use LMR-240 Ultraflex.

Don't forget the UG176 reducers so it will fit into the usual PL-259 connectors:

Main Message Board / Re: Mysterious marks on hull
« on: Yesterday at 09:58:24 PM »
Geoff I have a slightly different take on this.  Yes, it could be VC17 build-up, but I haven't experienced that because VC is so paper-thin/watery that it has never "built up" on me. 

I have had the barrier coat (VC Tar) do that when, after completely redoing the bottom, we splashed with the tar (7 sprayed coats) still curing.  The travel lift belts kinda squished/"pulled" the barrier coat in one small area.  I fixed it the next annual haul out.

But, unless I KNEW the cause -  I wouldn't sand it (initially) -- I'd take a rag and acetone and remove a section(s) of the VC (it will come right off) to see what the underlying cause was, rather than sand off the result of it.  If it is simply build-up, then no harm done -- the method will remove most the wrinkles (w/o sanding copper into the atmosphere.)

just a different approach...


Main Message Board / Re: m25xp pipe threads
« on: Yesterday at 09:33:56 PM »

first a couple corrections -

The T stat cap IS NPT -- 1/8" NPT -- remember it is NOT Kubota, it is Universal.  My point was to tap it to 1/4" NPT for a ball valve.

You definitely DO NOT have 3/4" NTP pump.  Pipe size (3/8", 1/2") is the nominal ID of the pipe, NOT the OD.  The actual ID can vary according to pipe schedule -- sch 10, sch 20, sch 40, sch 80 all have identical OD (the threads all have to fit together) -- the ID changes with heavier/lighter wall pipe.

Ob made/makes only TWO pump sizes for our engine -- 3/8" NPT in/out (202M-15) and 1/2" NPT in/out (202M-16.) 

NEARLY all Sherwood pumps were 1/2" NPT in/out.  One model was 3/8" NPT in/out.

Why you have one 1/2" npt and one 3/8" npt elbow?  Dunno.  A "P.O. job"?
It's kin to what I call a "buddy job."  ( My buddy did the (insert here - wiring, plumbing, carpentry, autobody, engine repair...) so I KNOW he wouldn't have screwed me on the (insert here - materials, workmanship, price).)

---- why do you want a rebuild kit -- is it leaking?  If you don't know what you are doing -- it's not HARD but is tricky to do it correctly.  Ron has a tech article.  AND you have to know whether the shaft is screwed up and needs replacing or can have it turned in a lathe to lose any score in it.  The easiest is to have Depco do a rebuild (YBYC.)

If you want just a new impeller/gasket/o-ring, they are:

6593             impeller
9797-034      o-ring (current N202M- pumps)
6599             paper gasket (older 202M- pumps)
Kubota  15296-88130 is the best mounting gasket.  If you can't locate one convenient I have about 25 in front of me.

Remove and deep six the cir-clip on the shaft it has no function and makes an impeller change harder.
Coat the shaft w/ superlube before putting on the impeller.  When you put the impeller in, it doesn't matter how the fins face -- they self correct on the first revolution.

Does your gear cover have 4 studs or does it mount with 4 bolts? It's been done both ways.



see the 2nd from the bottom article under engine>exhaust

My tube also was collapsing -- I happend to have a pc of aluminum tubing (from what I have no idea) that just was a "tap-in" fit in the ID of both tubes.  That fixed it up nicely. 
That lasted until the weak muffler (tends to crack at the base) leaked twice and finally crapped out on a crossing.  Now I have a stainless muffler.

Main Message Board / Re: Smile repair
« on: May 31, 2020, 10:11:11 PM »
If you're planning to use carbon fibre make sure you isolate it from contact with any metal by a layer of glass cloth first... it's conductive and will cause corrosion.


I'm not certain I understand that concern -  conduct, say, lead to what?  To non-conductive fiberglass?

Main Message Board / Re: Smile repair
« on: May 31, 2020, 09:50:46 PM »

I used a roll of 4" or 6" wide fiberglass mat that I had from west marine -- the guys at west systems suggested bi-axial cloth.  1 or 2 layers, can't recall - I'd probably use carbon if I did it again (I will not.) 

I laid it in using colloidal silica thickener (would not again -- now I use and always recommend microfibers thickener, much better/easier.)

Then faired on top of that using medium-density filler.


Main Message Board / Re: m25xp pipe threads
« on: May 31, 2020, 09:31:59 PM »
MD see below


now that i know they're japanese thread, i'll look around for fittings.  doesn't look like mcmaster has them.

Here's one fact - you will find VERY FEW JIS barbs, elbow barbs, etc.  If you do it will be a very rare find.

JIS -- or you are more likely to see "British pipe" or "BSPT".  Either is unlikely to locate on this side of the pond, so good luck w/ that!


i want to switch to a barbed fitting, i picked up an oil separator for that. 

There's no need to have a barb, I clamped a hose (I think 3/8?) on the threaded ell - no muss no fuss for 15 years.   

I agree w/ SJ - rethink the oil separator -- why use one?  To exclude a whisp of oil from getting into a cylinder that burns fuel oil? 
There is one and only one argument to not run it direct to the air breather, and that is to prevent a run-away diesel.  I have NEVER heard of that happening on our diesels.  Yes. it is THEORETICALLY possible, but.....


barbed fitting from the engine water pump i could probably clean, but it looks like it's been hacked at a little or squeezed out of round (so now it's a trust issue). 

Truth be told, the PO already screwed up the water flange by tightening an NPT barb into the JIS port.  Because s/he was ignorant of the type and since the thread forms (TPI) are so close (27 vs 28) it seemed to be a correct fit.   

So replace with either JIS or NPT -- just use a good quality heavy-duty, high heat pipe dope.  If you want to go OEM, buy the Kubota hose nipple -- no barbs per se, but it is unnecessary.  The part number is in the Kb parts manual on the wiki. 

Atop the coolant pump - I'm not a proponent of mis-matching threads, but you can see that the NPT barb "worked" in the water flange.

YBYC whether to do the same on the pump, but the OEM part has worked for MANY years on MANY Universal and Kubota engines.  Why change to a different fitting?  Does the coolant pump have the OEM barb-less hose nipple?

You can get adapters - JIS one end, NPT the other -- M/M, FM/FM, and gender change -- (e.g., for into the coolant pump, then an NPT hose barb.)



For the life of me, I don't GET the big deal about the valve on the T-stat housing -- prove me wrong but the argument for it seems to be "so I don't burn my fingers."  Ok, if you can't be aware and use a pliers or a rag when opening a petcock, I guess there's a benefit having a sexy quarter-turn valve.  But how often does one need to bleed?  This isn't a monthly or annual maintenance thing.  If there's an overflow reservoir -- once filled and burped there is no need to repeat it unless there is work done on the closed system.

I replaced crappy petcocks with brass ones that don't corrode/rust all to hell -- again, 20 yrs ago and no muss, no fuss since.

Remove the T-stat cap, drill out the 1/8" JIS -- and tap to 1/4" NPT for a ball valve?

While you have the cap off, add a hi-temp alarm switch (if you don't already have one.)


raw water pump fittings,
i don't understand why they're different or why one had a reducing bushing. 
it would also be nice if they were sweeping

Is yours a 1/2" or 3/8" NPT inlet/outlet pump?  I can't tell cuz the model tag is missing off the cover.

CatalinaDirect has 1/2" x 5/8 elbow barbs for the Ob pump.  Truth is -- they are simply 1/2 npt x 5/8" PEX adapters (that CD overcharges for.) 

You cannot have long sweeps or long barbs because the tip won't turn past the other elbow.  With nipples etc you can make anything work but it's not "clean."

I have sourced decent 90 elbows for YEARS -- and they do not exist.  I have bought a desk drawer full of tries and rejects that I will not sell with a pump.   Take my word for that or waste time researching it.
All have too little barb to double clamp and 99% are BRASS (a no-no.) 

The CDs elbows are brass as are the Wb/Sherwood elbows (what you have.)  I have one source that has GREAT marleon knock offs (but not in 5/8.)  I pleaded with them to make 1/2" x 5/8 barb -- "Sure," they agreed -- The first one is 14 thousand $$, very reasonably priced after that."

Can you C34-ers use straight-in barbs?  (IMO the best configuration.)   If so I have a solution -- if not, then just soak yours in Lime Away to clean up the deposits.

I ran the hose down from the pump outlet to the engine stringer and back up to the Hx -- I got really sick and tired of the hose being in the way of the oil dipstick.

Main Message Board / Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« on: May 31, 2020, 07:39:47 PM »

To make it the easiest for a change out, I tell folks to apply penetrant (your choice, PB, liquid wrench, kroil, homebrew, etc.  As many times as they are reasonably able to.   Alternate that with heat (propane torch -- several cycles of heating the strut/applying penetrant helps suck in the penetrant and break the corrosion bond before you try to push it.  Then heat the strut before pushing the old out (expands the strut.)   Every owner who has followed those preps has NO problem pushing/pushing.  Use a LITTLE never seize on the shaft and collets.    I even had one guy several yrs ago (the tool was out on rental so he was waiting in line) who fashioned a hammock out of a plastic bag and smothered the cutlass in penetrant for a week  -- maybe a little extreme/overkill/anal but afterward he said, "It was like butter."


Main Message Board / Re: m25xp pipe threads
« on: May 31, 2020, 09:48:12 AM »
Great question and oftentimes confused and/or answered incorrectly. 🤯🤬


The two ports that receive those fittings are not metric - they are JIS (Japanese Industrial Standard) pipe thread.

NOTE- the straight barbed fitting is NOT an 25XP OEM part and someone unknowingly? used an NPT fitting in the JIS threaded port (maybe on the water pump as well?)   That hose nipple is indeed in the parts manual and this is the OEM fitting

Rules of thumb;

Generally, any fastener that bolts into the Kubota block or anything supplied with the engine block to Universal Motors is metric.
(Examples -
The starter to the plate it attaches to are M8 bolts; the nut on the starter solenoid “B” post is M8 thread; the fasteners (bolts or studs/nuts, depending) holding on the sea water pump are M6.). Even the thermostat cap is by Universal, the bolts holding it to the Kubota water flange are M6.

Any pipe thread fitting that screws into the Kubota block or an OEM appendage (e.g., valve cover) is a tapered thread (like npt - National Pipe Thread) but is JIS thread.
Appendages added by Universal Motors (such as the sea water pump) are NPT thread (inlet/outlet.)

JIS is imperial sized (1/6”, 1/8”, 1/4”, etc) and is functionally
 equivalent to BSPT (British standard pipe tapered.) 
Example - the low-oil-pressure switch is 1/8” JIS thread? NOT 1/8 npt.

As I said JIS is an imperial size - (1/8”, 1/4”, etc.)  But the pitch (threads per inch) of the tapered pipe thread is different than our NPT thread. And the fit at the peak/valley of the two standards are very different (one rounded, the other sharp.)

Example -
1/8 JSI pipe is 1/8-27 (threads/inch)
1/4 JSI is 1/4-18
1/8 npt is 1/8-28
1/4 npt is 1/4-19

What’s your goal regarding the two parts and maybe I can explain further, options, etc..
What are you trying to accomplish? with the sea water pump fittings as well?


Main Message Board / Re: Replacing Cutlass - this seems outrageous
« on: May 29, 2020, 10:00:18 PM »

Welcome to the wonderful world of "marine" pricing.  Isn't boating FUN?

Yes, IMO you are getting screwed -- in a couple of ways.

1. I have NEVER had one of our tools NOT work unless it was user-error or user-stupidity (such as an owner knowingly trying to push out the bearing w/ one setscrew left in place, OR trying to push a new bearing INSIDE the old, bad, bearing (ordered the wrong size bearing.)  NEVER had a failure.  Yes, there are boats/situations where only a hydraulic tool, or removing the shaft will work, but that's probably 5% (at most) of the time when it comes so smaller size shafts like ours.  Get into 4" or 5" bearings and yes, those are more difficult.  Do I make myself clear -- you are getting a line of bull#### about it not working.  But there is specific prep necessary to make it easiest to push the old/new.

2. The yard is either (1) very stupid, or (2) pulling a sleight-of-hand on you when demonstrating the tool.  In fact, I just had one on the way back to me from Anacortes (put in the mail today) -- hell you could have driven and picked it up.

3.  Yes, you can cut out the throw-away shaft, replace it past the rudder w/o the bearing in place, and then push in the new bearing.  Eazy-peazy.  Did I mention that you are getting the shaft?

That said, if you have just a LiTTLE movement in the cutlass you can leave it a season.

4.  Yards have lost a lot of revenue that they missed out on not being able to work on boats -- now they need to make up (read FABRICATE) work to get back to the income level that they're used to. 

The hour estimate is a little high (IMO) on some items but you know how it goes with marine work - nothing goes as expected/planned/hoped-for.  As far as parts, in normal times I'd expect to pay retail list -- some of the ones you cite are not list price -- they are typical retail.  e.g., the Blackfish bearing is $91 MSRP, but in most places retails at $55.


Main Message Board / Re: hx 7/8" to 1" mod
« on: May 29, 2020, 09:09:19 PM »

sleeving the hx doesn't seem worthwhile

If the 7/8" & 3/8" sources (see reply to Dave) don't meet your fancy, I'd wrap 1/8" of self-vulcanizing silicone tape on the 7/8" port and have at it with 1" hose.  But then you'll need a different elbow at the other end.   If you want silicone drop me a PM.


Main Message Board / Re: hx 7/8" to 1" mod
« on: May 29, 2020, 08:41:57 PM »

I respectfully disagree with Ken that 7/8" coolant hose is common. 


My mention to google it was that it shows there are many who manufacture 7/8 hose.  That says to me that it isn't that unusual -- I didn't mean that everyone should buy it from Scamazon.   

That said, when I re-hosed (granted it was 10+ yrs ago and things may have changed) West Marine carried 7/8" in the store -- when out of any size it magically showed up a couple days after being ordered.   NAPA also carries 7/8" and I can get it the next day if my store is out of it.  Defender carries 7/8" hose (Trident 250 series wire-wound, which is what you want for the Hx to pump inlet -- remember the coolant pump sucks, not pumps.)  WM also carries 3/8" Shields and NAPA carries 3/8" heater hose - again if it isn't in stock, my store will have it in the next morning or day after.  I've supplied customers with 3/8" and 5/8" and 7/8" silicone hose as well as silicone exhaust hose and fittings for our engines.  It's all available.

I agree that one cannot always walk in and expect to see 7/8" hose in stock.  But how many other things do we need for boats that are not "in stock" (and so need to be ordered in)?  Lots. 

Changing heater hoses isn't an impulse or emergency purchase -- I personally wouldn't think it a big deal to gather up my materials ahead of time when anticipating the project (even if WM or NAPA took a couple days to get it in.)  I just by nature plan ahead -- but recognize that not everyone does.

[edit] - Remember, one can ALWAYS get the OEM Universal part (and pay thru the nose instead of taking the effort to locate hose at discount.)


Main Message Board / Re: Smile repair
« on: May 25, 2020, 10:55:48 PM »

just wasnt sure how far to go with grinding, i havent done this before,it only took a few minutes to do what i did.I have not seen tech articles that you speak of.

The pix show that there is a crack between the remaining bedding and the keel -- the bedding looks intact against the keel buss.  At least that's what I can see from the pix but naturally it's difficult to determine the extent of good and bad.  If there is a crack still there (discontinuous between the two parts,) movement and stresses will create a new crack and repeat the process.  Plus water getting down thru the keel bolt threads attacks the polyester-based joint bedding.  So, IIWMB, I would be grinding with a angle grinder and narrow blade to get deep in to the bedding to where the bedding is still attached to the keel.  If is isn't, then going deep will allow a good bit of material to adhere to both the keel and keel buss.  When I dropped the keel, I rebed with 5200 (per West Systems recommendation) which allows some minimal movement/stress without opening up/creating a new crack.  Wrapping the joint and faring it out maintains the integrity of the fairing (preventing a hunk gone missing like is in your pix.)

The Epoxyworks are on the West Sytems website for download.


Main Message Board / Re: hx 7/8" to 1" mod
« on: May 25, 2020, 10:41:33 PM »
Shields is far from the only mfgr/supplier of 7/8 hose - it is not uncommon. 
EPDM, silicone, etc -- it's all out there just Google it.

How is it 'easier' to rework a Hx than simply buy a hunk of the correct (OEM size) hose once every 20 years? 
EVEN IF it was available (readily available, I might add) from only one source?  The logic escapes me.  :? :shock:

The "annually replaced" seawater pump impeller is available only from Oberdorfer (or Sherwood for the inferior pumps.)  Why not change to a belt-driven one that has a "more-common" impeller? 
That makes more sense than for a hose that's replaced once in 20 years.

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