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Messages - KWKloeber

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Main Message Board / Re: ACR Wiring Revisited (again)
« on: August 03, 2022, 10:55:45 PM »

GREAT as Stu says we need to understand what our wiring does -- then messing with it becomes less of a mystery!!

My wiring matches the diagram here, except I have an extra wire on the key switch 'I' terminal for the fuel pump.

The yellow wire pictured is a jumper from the AO to alternator sense.

What most do not understand is that there are two sets of wiring -- the engine harness wiring that Universal installed (gummy bear plug at the engine end.) and Catalina boat wiring (the fuel pump power, the fuel tank sender, and the Alt AC wire to the tach -- all to the panel -- plus the tank negative/bond wire, deck fuel fill bond wire, and battery cables to the engine.)  Universal had nothing to do with those CTY wires going to the panel so they never went thru the harness gummy bear plugs!!  When CTY installed the harness extension to the cockpit panel it simply included "it's wiring" with the "engine wiring" as one bundle.
 If you want a no-charge fuse set up for the panel feed wire I have about 50 here. 

The fuel pump wire is redundant!!  When I make a new harness for a customer I run ONE wire and split it at the engine end (to the pump and the Alt excite terminal.)

The terminal strips can be problematic -- it's best that you butt crimp the wires ad do away with the terminal strips.  Per ABYC, every terminal MUST HAVE its wire supported within 6" of the terminal.  That doesn't mean hanging in space with a spare wire wrapped around it as the Seaward "upgrade" instructs owners to do!!!

if your Alt has an external sense terminal could it be use to sense house battery voltage instead of AO voltage?
Yours must be a Motorola 8EM2017KA alternator.


Assuming the panel feed is left on the start battery and the AO goes to the house battery, will there be issues with the alternator excite or AC output to the tach?

I'd see my starting battery voltage (when not combined) rather than monitoring the alternator, but maybe that's okay with me.

No problem - so long as the excite terminal sees 12v, the alt excites.  Same with the tach signal -- they both are referenced to your bonded-together negative battery terminals.

There's an argument that the most important V reading is what you have to start the engine.  Of course I STILL maintain that a start battery should be an **EMERGENCY** battery and used only then but it's difficult to convince folks of that.  With an ACR it doesn't matter much though.  But the V meter in the cockpit is really to show whether the alternator is charging, not meant to give you an accurate battery V (hence why the OEM panel had an ammeter.)  Just put a toggle switch on the panel and you can read either voltage source (or pull the voltage right off the AO terminal to show whether the Alt is charging, regardless of which battery.

Check this thread. It was on an m25/mk-I probably w/the same transmission?,11396.0.html
If your mechanic hasn’t done it use the dowel technique to try to narrow it down.

We don’t know what/if he narrowed it down as he didn’t report back the results (that I recall seeing anyway.)
Dunno.  Maybe he got fed up and sank her for the insurance? :shock: :shock:
Good luck!

Main Message Board / Re: Impeller Install
« on: July 31, 2022, 06:45:00 PM »
I think you misinterpreted my post.
The link was to Noah’s suggestion on another thread

Keel: (and everyone) (It would help if you listed your boat’s specifics (year hull, engine, etc.) on your signature line to help folks better target responses to your questions.”  (my emphasis added)

Main Message Board / Re: Impeller Install
« on: July 31, 2022, 10:31:45 AM »,11467.msg92521.html#msg92521

Then we wouldn’t need to rely on Ron to tell us!!


Anybody have experience adapting 2" water muffler to 1 5/8" exhaust hose?

Yeah about a dozen times at last count.

I recommend a Centek Vernatube 2” x 1-5/8” reducer, which is what I had Bill use when “we” did his 2” muffler.  You can see here where he reduced it down under the sink:

It’s a one-off size not a fitzall.

Main Message Board / Re: Compression Test
« on: July 31, 2022, 10:14:26 AM »

 next step is going to be inspecting the heat exchanger for pin holes.

Again, “does she have the 2” or 3” Hx?”

Another method to ck the Hx, is to remove the Hx end caps; pressurize the closed system at the pressure cap (loaner from auto parts,) and look for coolant dripping out from one of the Hx internal tubes.

Again, at that age if it hasn’t already it’s overdue to fail. Replace it.

Main Message Board / Re: M25 / XP gear cover oil leak (possibly?)
« on: July 30, 2022, 01:21:43 PM »
Well crap the pic didn’t post.

Kubota calls it a gear case.  Conventionally motor heads would call it a timing cover (so does Wb), but there’s no timing belt under there so that terminology isn’t really correct.  I go with Kubota parts terminology.
eg, front of the engine.

Main Message Board / Re: Electrical fire!
« on: July 30, 2022, 12:39:23 PM »

Remember the barrel fuse and crappy S wire connection!!

Can I steal your pix for my Harness 101 article - I’ll give due credit.
I haven’t had one of an actual fire, only melted plugs.

Main Message Board / Re: Electrical fire!
« on: July 29, 2022, 06:17:54 PM »

Why are those connections so problematic?

There's multiple reasons that cause the plug failures - and, given a perfect storm condition, a FiRE.
see  (Item 1.2)

Main Message Board / Re: ACR Wiring Revisited (again)
« on: July 29, 2022, 11:46:40 AM »

KWKloeber - Is the purpose of adding the negative wire to the alternator to add redundancy in case the negative wire to the engine comes loose?

READ the Harness 101.  That's why I posted the link.  It addresses grounding the alt.

(It looks like you might have an Alt (yellow?) Neg cable, but can't tell from the close-up pic.)


When the start button is pressed, the Start Isolation (connected to the yellow/red wire) momentarily removes the path between the house bank and start battery so 100% of the starting effort comes from the starting battery.

Ok, I understand that concept.  makes sense!


If I leave the smaller red wire on the main starter post (B post?), the cockpit voltmeter would be reading the voltage from the starting battery rather than the alternator/house battery while the batteries are not being combined by the ACR.

Ok, I'm going to MAKE you understand the harness.  LOL

READ the Harness 101 especially the

Then ask yourself, "What will power functions #5,6,8,9,10 if I move the red wire?"  Is that what you desire?

And, "What will (or more importantly, won't) happen if my house is dead?"  (hint, #5, #6)

What you hook up to the cockpit VM depends on what's you want to know when you are motoring (the VM isn't ON when the key is off)?   Alternator output voltage?  House bank voltage?  Start battery voltage?
I have my preference but it might not be yours.

If the orange wire (that came back from the ammeter) is still in the harness you can use that wire so that the VM will reads whatever you want to see.  (Or put a toggle switch on the panel and read two different voltage sources.)

Main Message Board / Re: Impeller Install
« on: July 29, 2022, 11:15:26 AM »
Ken, I've rebuilt my pump a few times, and venture to offer that those lip seals are pretty hefty, and agree that care should be taken when reinstalling the shaft in any and all times.

"...playing with fire to fully remove the shaft..." - hardly.

OK, I'll clarify.  My point (not well articulated) is that I, too, oftentimes do things that I would never tell the "average" boater to undertale (say, fiddling around the starter with a screwdriver to short the "S" terminal to the "B" terminal.)  I take the course that those things are best left unsaid unless one knows the others' abilities and the level of care inherent to them.

Although I sometimes do, I'd never suggest that removing the pump shaft is a good idea for the masses to undertake whenever they charge an impeller. 

Their boat, their choice, of course, but I would never myself suggest that, for the unaware, they undertake something that could be playing with matches -- when in the first place it is totally unnecessary to even get out the matchbook.

Main Message Board / Re: Impeller Install
« on: July 29, 2022, 09:30:45 AM »

It absolutely matters whether it's a slight pull back or a full removal. 
In that it’s playing with fire to fully remove the shaft. There’s the chance (albeit slight) of nicking the lip seal when teplacing it, and unless the impeller is seized on the shaft, there’s (IMO) no reason to pull it. I always hold the shaft with a screwdriver or something blunt and pull the impeller w/ a needle nose.
Just “my pump, my choice/caution” I suppose.

That's the simplicity of “approaching” (ugggh) the pump w/ the impeller zip tied - the impeller mates on the flat, no twisting of a (necessary loose) shaft is needed.

Main Message Board / M25 / XP gear cover oil leak (possibly?)
« on: July 29, 2022, 08:25:09 AM »
Has anyone with an M25 or XP experienced an oil lesk that gets slunged all over and coats the cover, coolant hose, and whatnot else?

(this is another owner’s issue)
He hasn't yet been able to narrow down the source.

This is < 5 min running after completely cleaning the cover bone dry:

Main Message Board / Re: Impeller Install
« on: July 29, 2022, 08:07:26 AM »
If you haven't yet, don't bother with the zip ties.  I just hold the impeller on the shaft in front of the pump and twist it while pushing gently.  it goes right in.  Then I keep twisting to get the inside end of the shaft set properly and then impeller vanes then go all the way in.


Are you removing the shaft to change the impeller, or just “unseating it” from the camshaft?

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