Messages

Again!

When you say pump "outlet hose" when fiddling with the tank, where were you attempting to pump to?   Another bottle, or thru the secondary filtet?  Or....?

Do you have all the manuals saved?  If not, they could have probably eliminated some time and frustration.

-Ken

When I tried to pump fuel from a bottle directly into the pump inlet, no good.  But if I remove the outlet hose from the pump, it pumped fine.

Greg

By the way - do you have a Parts Manusl, ops Manual, and Service Manual for your engine?

Greg

Where/what was the blockage?

Follow the fuel hose from the Secondary Filter up to the Injection Pump.  If you have an XP here **should** be a knob on the side of the Injection Pump, near the top.

It would be better for YOU to post a picture of what YOUR engine has so that we can guide you.

The bleed on the Secondary Filter housing is simply a machine screw that you open. You're better initially bleeding at the Injection Pump to see if she starts. Then go deeper if necessary.

Ken

Thanks all for the help.  I am making progress.  With the electric pump engaged, I am now getting fuel flow to the secondary filter.  I know I have to bleed the air at this point, but not 100% clear on the best way to do that. 
I see mention of the bleed valve on the secondary filter.  The filter location makes it hard to see so not exactly sure where that is.  I also see mention about a knurled knob - is this the same thing?
If anyone has photos of where best to bleed, that would be incredibly helpful.

Greg

When you say "outlet hose", where were you attempting to pump to?   Another bottle, or thru the secondary filtet?  Or....?

When I tried to pump fuel from a bottle directly into the pump inlet, no good.  But if I remove the outlet hose from the pump, it pumped fine.

Do you have a diagram on how you think the fuel bleed knob should be re-plumbed?

Jon
The m-25 bleed was originally just a hollow hex bolt that was loosened to bleed fuel.  I catch it in a solo cup (with the bright white interior its easy to check for gunk.)

I replaced thd bolt with the knob and made no other Mod.  So I simply catch bled fuel from the hose barb into a cup.

The XP has the bled fuel going to Injector #1. I understand Kubota's reasoning but for our purposes it's better to see what's being bled vs the ease of not needing to catch it in a cup.  It's better (IMO) to see the bled fuel, look at its condition, verify that the flow is strong, and there is no air sputtering, and if there is, when it stops.  You can't tell any of that how Kubota plumbed the knob.

Plus, it's easier that way to troubleshoot if there is a suspected pump issue.


So all that's needed is to remove the hose from the knob's barb and plug it off.
If one wanted to still be able to send bled fuel to the tank, leave the hose connected and put a 3-way valve inline.

Jon
I understand what you are saying are possible causes, but that's my point.  Do not invest unnecessary time/effort to pull the fuel suction from the tank unless the Facit won't pull using a new hose directly on the tank. That procedure (my #4) eliminates everything except a tank/suction screen blockage.

Being able to more easily troubleshoot pump/blockage/air leak issues is a PRIME reason to re-plumb the fuel bleed knob in m-25s/XPs. But nobody listens!


Aside: years ago a bud had closed the fuel cock, forgot about it, and next time aboard started up in his slip. 
He slipped into gear and she stalled. 
Cranking he couldn't start it, and someone went below, checked and opened the fuel cock — she started right up — in gear — and he smashed the bow of his C&C into the the wharf.

and verify the filter is removed from inside the fuel tank, the valve on the tank is all the way open and not clogged, and the hose from that valve to the Racor is not clogged.

So sorry for wasting your time...

No such thing!! 
We all learn from those type of scenarios.

Hi all,
I posted yesterday about needing a new fuel pump - unfortunately that was not the problem.  The new pump had the same issues. 
My fuel line goes from the tank to the primary filter to the pump to the engine.  I disconnected the outflow from the pump and turned it on - nothing.  So the pump isn't getting fuel.  The strange thing is that the primary filter seems to get getting fuel.  I had emptied the bowl and when I turned on the pump, I could see it fill. I had just put a new line from the filter to the pump, so that can't be the issue.  The filter is brand new as well.

My only thought is that there is an obstruction in the fuel tank that allows some fuel through, but not enough for the pump.  Any other suggestions?

Thanks,

Greg

I will say it once more for about the 100th time. 

Mates and matettes, Do NOT start replacing parts willy-nilly.

troubleshoot, Troubleshoot, TROUBLESHOOT to eliminate as much as possible.   Then start replacing parts willy-nilly.

Generally the procedure would be:

Look at Stu's write-up about the check valve. 
Check the filter on the Facit pump.
Verify it will pump from a fuel jug.
Bypass the primary filter to see if the Facir will pull directly from the tank.
Those will help to eliminate "non-causes."

Beautiful!

Thinking "inside the box," as it were.  

I've had to use descalers on some heavy duty equipment with heavy duty build up.  Sometimes like 1/8" to 1/4" thick.

The key to doing it properly (meaning most effectively and quickly) is to keep a fresh boundary layer against the scale.  If the acid sits stagnant, the boundary layer reacts and pH rises, and looses effectiveness.

Picture washing your boat. You don't soak it and expect all the dirt to disappear. You need fresh water flowing.  Same principle.

I used to set up two ways, a closed circulation with a small pump or letting whatever I was descaling drain into a sump and suck it up with a hose and hand spray it back onto whatever I was descaling.

So unless you have a huge reservoir (like a radiator shop has to dip and drain an dip again, the acid is best being circulated, which can be done on a closed system with a cheap inline 12v rubber impeller pump, or an open system having the Hx inlet draining into a bucket and a cheap pump picking it up and back to the Hx outlet. 

What pros do to know when to stop is check pH of the descaler exiting the equipment.  When it rises and levels off, there is no more scale left to react with the acid.
OR, in extreme cases of scale, if the pH is too high it needs to be renewed because it's spent and isn't reacting any longer.

Hey Cliff

You nailed it.  Cooler / high humidity. It doesn't much matter whether you're on the hook or not - you will get steam if the conditions are right for it.  You would be cheap insurance to buy a laser thermometer and check the Hx, Muffler, and exhaust hose temps.


You may have a blockage in the Hx or in the exhaust injection riser nipple, but there is no sense playing Whack-A-Mole.  Troubleshoot, Troubleshoot, Troubleshoot what you MIGHT need to do and save yourself some time.

Have you serviced the Hx since the 2015 install?  If not, it probably needs attention. 
It should be on your annual maintenance checklist to check its condition.  If its cooling drops, it can lead to the deposits/reduced flow/eventual blockage at the injection nipple.

I endorse about changing the hose barbs -- I tell EVERY customer to do that.  Change the inlet to a straight -- and both straight if you can, or at least a sweep 90 on the pump outlet. 
 
-Ken

The engine is running at 160 degrees and I have had that Oberdorfer for long enough to know that it does an adequate job. the day was cooler than usual and very humid but what worried me is that I motored out and back down the channel and when I tied up to the mooring, was still getting the white "steam". and water was coming out of the boat as per usual.

PS:
Remove and deep six the cir-clip that holds the pump shaft.

And dab a bit of TefGel or SuperLube gel on the shaft under the impeller hub to help keep them from getting too familiar with and "attached to" each other.

A handy way to reinstall an impeller is to use a zip tie to compress the blades.

If you pull the shaft, put some gel on the end so it harmlessly passes thru the two lip seals. 

Richard

Straight from Kubota, the gear cover had studs (the land was for either an optional mechanical hour meter or hydraulic pump on tractors/industrial equipment.)

Universal kept the studs for the Ob pumps and one of the Sw pump models. And removed them for the Sw 903 pump.

The s/s ones were originally meant only to switch from the Sw to Ob pumps (for who had no studs) because I prefer permanent one-and-done vs. screwing in/out of the aluminum gear covers.  Some who have steel studs remove them in favor of the s/s ones - some use just the nylock flange nuts (which eliminates lockwashers.) To get the correct double-ended lengths I had to order "a big bunch" at a time from the UK so I just include a set as a YBYC option.

Note, If you're moving from the 903/908 pump to the N202, you should use 4 instead of 2 fasteners. Also I recommend the Kubota gasket over the Wb/Universal one. It's beefier so it's more likely to survive a pump R&R.

Here's the studs on a gear cover that I refurbished (for a BC guy whose exploding alternator bracket cracked his.)

@ricowr

I am currently out but expect to have an N202M-16 in a week or so.

This is not the first time that Gardner Denver/Ingersoll did this to owners. 
I should be careful here cuz another division of IR is a client.

Back in 2019 or so when Oberdorfer sold out and was moved from NY to IL, they made zero attempt to plan the transition, and production went down the toilet for a season. 

In February, they moved from MI to IL, and, instead of running the plants in parallel as was planned until production/stock was up, they decided to close the MI plant and cause this clown show.

- Ken

Thank-you, Ed Shankle and Jon W for you input here.  I will reach out to Ken to see if he happens to have an OB on hand.  Otherwise, I will definitely give Depco a try.
 

Rich

Be aware that even the "new, improved" Westerbeke bracket can fail with a crack at the gentle radius rather than the sharp bend.