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Messages - Breakin Away

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Main Message Board / Re: Antifreeze: Which type is best?
« on: May 17, 2020, 08:52:14 PM »
Just to close out this issue, I completed the distilled water rinse and coolant replacement a couple weeks ago. I had some minor issues with air pockets and establishing the siphon from the coolant reservoir, but resolved them using a portable electric impeller pump recirculating through the hot water heater (pump from from full exhaust manifold and pump into hose removed from nipple of water pump while plugging the nipple) and then removing the reservoir tube from the exhaust manifold and pumping back into the reservoir to eliminate air pockets in the high spots of the feed tube.

Regarding the use of Zerex G05, I had heard it referred to as "yellow" so was expecting it to have some bright yellow dye. Instead, I'd call it more of a faint "amber" color which make it tough to distinguish from other fluids. If you see a little pink or green liquid in the bilge or other low spots, you immediately know what fluid it is. With the Zerex, you can't really tell if it's seawater, freshwater, or coolant. On the plus side, it is much more transparent than the green liquid, so I expect that it will be easier to detect if there is any precipitate in the coolant reservoir or exhaust manifold.

I've put 15 hours on the motor in the past 2 days, and it ran great and held temperature under load.

Main Message Board / Re: Marinas closed in Md.
« on: May 07, 2020, 07:27:08 AM »
For those of us who have our boats in Maryland but live outside the state, I would appreciate hearing reports here from anyone who encounters difficulties from law enforcement regarding Maryland's quarantine requirements for those coming from out-of-state. My hope is that Maryland will consider us to fall into the "regular commuter" exception, but I am not aware that this exclusion has been tested.

Often multiple sources of info may be helpful:

See #256 and later posts.

Good luck.
Thanks for the suggestion. That's a much larger audience. I've posted and gotten some responses.

Main Message Board / Re: Marinas closed in Md.
« on: May 06, 2020, 03:32:30 PM »
For those of us who have our boats in Maryland but live outside the state, I would appreciate hearing reports here from anyone who encounters difficulties from law enforcement regarding Maryland's quarantine requirements for those coming from out-of-state. My hope is that Maryland will consider us to fall into the "regular commuter" exception, but I am not aware that this exclusion has been tested.

Main Message Board / Re: Sling markers for travel lift
« on: May 04, 2020, 09:28:50 PM »
I do much the same thing.  I put blue painters tape on the toe rail where the slings go for lift out.  That way the travel lift operator can easily see them when the boat is in the lift well.  A few inches off the factory recommendations won't harm anything, but moving the slings to accommodate the cradle makes lift out go much easier.  If you are happy with the way the boat was in the cradle this winter and you are there when they lift (I highly recommend that).  Take pictures of where the slings are placed and use that as a guide next lift out.
FWIW  I remove my forestay from the steam head to fit our travel lift.  Only takes a few minutes and not much work

My boat is at a private DIY yard, so I call all the shots, within the limits of what the lift operator is willing to do. The boat is on stands, not a cradle. And with 8 stands that I own (lots of redundancy) I can actually move them if needed (and do so every year to paint under the pads).

The sling positioning is very tricky because of the crossbar interference. I've always backed the boat in because it fits that way (barely). But this fall it took us 3 tries to lift the boat because the volunteer spotters weren't following my instructions and kept putting the slings too far forward on the boat, leading to interference between the backstay and crossbar.

Clearly this could be fixed very well by adjusting the rig. If I detached one side of the split backstay, there's be PLENTY of slack creating the clearance. Or, if I could detach the forestay, I could pull in forward. On my prior boat (C250) I dropped the mast every year, and released forestay and loosened backstay many times. But things are harder to reach on this boat.

So a question: When you detach your forestay, how do you de-tension it to get it off? Can you run the spin halyard alongside it and get enough tension on it to de-tension the forestay for removal? Alternatively, is there some easy way to de-tension one side of the split backstay? (On the C250, I used to attach my vang tackle from the top of the split to the bottom to de-tension, and the backstay had a nice shackle that was easy to release with pliers. But the split is too high to reach on the C34.)

Main Message Board / Re: Where to find Rydlyme?
« on: May 01, 2020, 08:16:59 PM »
Here's my thinking as of now:

I've decided to just do a water rinse of the freshwater cooling system before filling with new coolant, since there's no evidence of corrosion and there's lots of downside to using too strong an acid inside the motor. So far as I can tell, this motor has never had the problematic Dexcool in it, so hopefully there's no "death gel" to get rid of. I might use the Prestone Flush solution, which is not acidic at all. Sodium citrate is actually a mildly basic buffer, presumably to neutralize any trace acidity from the used antifreeze, so it can't hurt.

I opened the end plates of my HX today. The insides of the tubes are not blocked, but looking through them shows some evidence of mild scaling (looks like a dirty trumpet leadpipe), so I think a quick acid flush would be useful. I've confirmed that the plug threads for the zinc pencil are 1/4" NPT, for which I have a nice hose barb attachment. So I will connect tubing and a funnel, and hold it above the HX to gravity feed just enough acid to do some mild de-scaling for 10-15 minutes, then drain and remove the end plates, maybe push a snake through each tube (if my trumpet snake is small enough), followed by a copious rinse by running the motor with tap water from a bucket. I'm thinking of using cleaning vinegar for the acid rinse since I have it already and it's less intimidating than diluting the muriatic acid. (KWKloeber - I've seen what happens if you add water to muriatic, so I'm very aware of the importance of adding acid to water instead. But I'm still a little intimidated about using it.)

Anybody want to talk me out of this, or strongly suggest another acid?

Main Message Board / Re: Sling markers for travel lift
« on: May 01, 2020, 07:49:22 PM »
Breaking : Your MKII Owners manual has 2 pages (not numbered) for the "Lifting Recommendations"  One page for the fin keel and one page for the wing keel!! It appears to me that the reason for 2 pages for the different keels is that each page also has the shipping cradle diagram - which is different for each keel.  However the lifting is the SAME!!

The front sling lift center is at the rear of the forward opening hatch and the rear sling lift center is at the rear of the aft fixed port light!

Regarding the rear crossbar of the travel lift, here is what I have always done (and posted) to keep the back stay from touching that crossbar.  Take 2 dock lines and put one around each of the travel lifts front vertical bars. Then take that dock line into the primary winch and winch the boat forward while it's up in the sling.  That will keep that back stay from hitting that crossbar.  Simple as that!!  :thumb:

In the lift drawings it appears the aft sling is about 3 or 4 ft  forward (well infront) of the driveshaft!!

A few thoughts   :clap
Thanks for the tips. A few comments:

My hard copy manual has no pages describing the cradle or lift points. I do have a downloaded PDF manual from 2002 (a year after my boat was made) that has one page describing lifting recommendations, so now I have a better idea of where they recommend relative to the stanchions. My lift stickers are in very different places from that (and different places on port and starboard  :? ). They are under the rub rail, but that makes then almost impossible to see from the boat or the lift finger docks, since the lift tubes block their view. I've had to add my own stickers above the rub rail so they can be seen.

Your use of a dock line to pull the boat forward in the lift is very clever. I will keep that in mind, but the cranky lift operator in our DIY yard is very impatient and skeptical of anything that deviates from the norm. (Sailboats, by definition, already deviate from the norm more than he likes.) My biggest concern is locating these dock lines so that they stay fair (clear of lifelines, stanchions, etc.) as the boat is lifted about 12' from inside the well to a point high enough for the keel/rudder to clear the well. Do you have any tricks to keep them fair during such a high vertical lift (when I am off the boat, so can't adjust them)?

Main Message Board / Sling markers for travel lift
« on: May 01, 2020, 12:10:36 PM »
I need to mark my hull for future sling placement before going back in the water this season. There are little arrows there currently, but I do not trust them. I do not know who put them there, and they are wrong (one side is 18" further forward than the other side, which does not make sense).

The travel lift has a crossbar that I need to avoid hitting, so I back the boat in and keep it as far forward as possible to avoid the backstay hitting the crossbar when the boat is lifted out of the water. For this reason I need to place the sling as far aft on the boat as possible, but obviously I have to be careful that the sling is sufficiently forward of the shaft, or I'll end up with a bent shaft and other damage.

My question is how far forward of the shaft does the sling need to be to ensure the sling doesn't damage the shaft? Do any of you have sling markers on your hull, and if so, where are they placed?

Main Message Board / Re: Antifreeze: Which type is best?
« on: April 30, 2020, 06:15:20 PM »
First, I want to reiterate that our Universal diesels will probably be just fine with ordinary green glycol coolant. I'm going with the Zerex out of abundance of caution, but I think most of the "ringing" cavitation issues happen with diesels with different designs from the Universal. But the G-05 can't hurt, might last longer, and was on sale for a very reasonable price.

Regarding my coolant replacement plan, I think I'm just going to go with a distilled water rinse and re-fill. I have no discoloration or other indications of corrosion. The commercial cleaners appear to be just 10% sodium citrate, which as far as I can tell isn't a cleaner at all, but more of a weak base to neutralize acid buildup from old antifreeze. It seems like old fashioned acidic cleaners are no longer found in auto stores due to the proliferation of delicate aluminum radiators and environmental concerns. So I'm going to stop over-thinking it and just rinse and replace.

Main Message Board / Re: Where to find Rydlyme?
« on: April 30, 2020, 05:59:51 PM »
I did all that a year ago. I called them, and the nearest dealer was in Brick, NJ, 2 hours away from me. Amazon shipping is ridiculous - like $20/gallon for shipping alone, on top of $37/gal purchase price.

My engine is holding temperature fine. This is just PM that I want to do while I'm replacing the coolant. I don't think I need a heavy clean, or multi-day soak, or anything like that. There is no discoloration of my coolant to indicate corrosion. When I shine a flashlight in the reservoir bottle, there are a few little white flecks suspended, which I want to make sure to rinse out and start fresh.

I'm thinking I'll just do a water rinse and not bother with Rydlyme. If I could get it easier, I'd do it out of caution, but perhaps it's best not to risk it since you never know if you'll eat through something or clean away some scale that's preventing a leak.

Main Message Board / Re: Where to find Rydlyme?
« on: April 30, 2020, 12:38:07 PM »
Try ProcessFlo in Wilmington - on the way to the boat.  Maybe the pump service manager will sell you a gal.
FWIW, I called them awhile back. They've never heard of Rydlyme.

Main Message Board / Re: Antifreeze: Which type is best?
« on: April 29, 2020, 06:37:34 PM »
IMO —Breakin’ — you are way over-thinking it... as the Practical Sailor article says “ If you run your engines hard for over 1,000 hours per year-commercial fishing, perhaps-then SCAs should be a part of your maintenance program. If you barely burn a tank of fuel each season, you will be fine replacing the coolant every five years.” I say go with a typical brand name  “green poly glycol” stuff and forget about it. Caveat: I am NOT a mechanic. 8)
I suggest you re-read the article, especially the paragraph before the one you quoted. They describe a maintenance program of regularly replenishing the SCAs with supplemental additives. Such frequent (annual or more) replenishment of the SCAs is only needed if you put on 1000 hours a year. For the rest of us, replacing the coolant every five years is good enough. That's what they're actually saying.

And their conclusion is "If you have a diesel engine, you are safer with a diesel product, something that is formulated to handle the diesel clatter." In other words, use a heavy duty coolant formulated with SCAs for diesel engines. Pick one from their list - I chose Zerex G-05.

I've also had discussions about this in other forums with Drew Frye (who was involved in the Practical Sailor testing) and Maine Sail. Neither says that our diesels are going to explode from using normal green stuff, but I'm due to replace my coolant anyway, so I have no reason not to go with Zerex G-05, and have some data that says it would be beneficial. The "corrosion" column of Practical Sailor's test lineup makes the difference pretty clear.

Main Message Board / Re: Antifreeze: Which type is best?
« on: April 29, 2020, 06:02:12 PM »
I would like to read more about how antifreeze additives inhibit cavitation in combustion cylinders.  Could you direct me to your source?  Or maybe I misunderstood your post.
It's not in the cylinders, but outside the liners. Caused by ultrasonic waves from the high pressure "explosions" of diesel combustion. This article describes the issue:

Regarding my prior inquiry about finding an economical acid cleaner for flushing my raw water and freshwater (coolant) systems, I am concerned about using a raw, uninhibited acid in my engine (acetic, oxalic, muriatic, citric, etc.). But there are dozens of pre-formulated products sold for automotive applications that need to strike the same balance of effectiveness against minerals vs. inhibition against attacking the metal components. Is there any reason not to flush with a Prestone (or similar) radiator cleaner instead of Rydlyme?

Main Message Board / Re: Antifreeze: Which type is best?
« on: April 29, 2020, 11:35:34 AM »
Guys : I'm absolutely baffled by a quest for the "BEST Anti freeze"?? 
I always thought that there were really only a couple of characteristics that you needed to for in anti freeze - at what low temperature does the mixture start to congeal, water-pump lubrication, rust inhibitor and some longevity (lasts more than a year before breaking down).  Most major brands profess they have these characteristics??!!

Also I'm interested in "who" it is that did all of the testing to decide "which" is the best!! Their criteria and test parameters??
Also It would seem to me that the "water (cooling) jacket" in any engine (spark or compression) is about the same. Temperature of approx 160 degrees also should be the same in our small diesel engines or small gasoline engines. Temp. Might be much higher in large truck engines?!? Probably be a difference depending on the metal that the engine block is cast out of.

A few thoughts
I'm coming back to this after a few months as I am working on spring commissioning.

Practical Sailor has done quite a bit of testing on diesel antifreeze over the years.

I haven't re-read everything from a few months ago, but IIRC the "best" antifreeze for diesel engines includes cavitation inhibitors that reduce cavitation pitting of the cylinder shells. This is not necessary in gasoline engines due to lower compression ratios, but on diesels the higher compression/vibrations can make that a factor. Since I'm due for a full antifreeze replacement, I'm going with Zerex G-05 HOAT, which tested well, is reasonably priced, and readily available.

I'd still like to do a mild acid wash of the freshwater cooling system (run it for 15 min or so, then rinse with water and fill with new antifreeze), and would like any advice on what I could use. Rydlyme is not readily available around here. I could try Barnacle Buster. What about cleaning vinegar? oxalic acid? diluted CLR?

I'd also like to do an acid clean of the raw water side of my HX. I'm thinking of removing my pencil anode and replacing it with a hose barb (1/4" NPT thread). Then I could either pump in/out some acid (displaced air would vent out the exhaust hose) using a portable impeller, or even just gravity feed the acid through a raised funnel/tube connected to the hose barb. The latter method has the advantage of giving me a lot of control over the exact amount needed, since I just put the funnel about an inch above the HX to fill the HX without overfilling into the other components. Once again, I'd appreciate advice of what, other than Rydlyme, I could use for this (cleaning vinegar/oxalic acid/CLR)

Two more pictures of the finishing touches:

I should update you all on the replacement of my cracked salon hatch, which was the original topic of this thread before someone changed it.  :razz: :wink: :think

I finished the job today, and have a number of things to note, and some pictures:

Lewmar was slow to fulfill the order from Fawcett Marine. Things are apparently still chaotic since they were acquired by another company and consolidate the CT warehouse to NY. After a couple weeks of no acknowledgment of Fawcett's order, I called Lewmar's sales number and got somebody who was REALLY helpful and offered to personally expedite it. Fawcett received it two days later, and then shipped it to me about a week ago. It's a good thing they expedited it, because the COVID-19 stuff really cranked up in NY, and another day delay might mean I'm still waiting.

There was one pleasant surprise: The hatch not only had a new seal (as promised) but it had new hardware - handles and lifter bracket! I didn't have to re-use these items from my old hatch.

Less pleasant surprise: The new lens is still 1/4" thick. The reported upgrade to 5/16" thick for the replacement lenses isn't true.

I needed a 4-3/4" hole for a new solar vent (which, if you go back to the OP, is why I ended up cracking the old hatch), I had shopped around to all the plastic fabricators to see if they'd be willing to cut this hatch, and they all either weren't willing or wanted $75-100 to do it. So I watched a bunch of videos on how to safely cut acrylic (it's not as simple as it sounds, due to melting and cracking), then bought a 4-3/4" hole saw and mandrel. Once I opened the mandrel, I discovered the reported shank size was the width of the hexagon,not the full diameter of the bit (which meant it was too big for my drill), so I also had to buy a 1/2" drill (no loaners available, and renting one would cost me more than a new one at Harbor Freight). But even with hole saw+mandrel+cheap drill, I was in for only $38, much less than quoted cost to have someone else cut it for me.

Some tricks for cutting into acrylic:

  • Lubricate all drilling and sawing with dish detergent. As cutting proceeds, dilute the detergent with water to provide cooling, and stop frequently to apply more with an artists' brush. This prevents overheating, and the foam generated helps to disperse the acrylic bits instead of them re-welding together.
  • Cut the pilot hole and screw holes (for the solar vent flange) very gradually, starting with 1/16" bit and increasing by 1/64" each time, up to 1/4" (for the mandrel) or appropriate size for #8 or #10 machine screws.
  • Be very careful to avoid overheating with the 1/16" bit, because it can fuse in the hole and will be very difficult to remove.
  • You can buy a custom designed plastic bit that would get your hole in one step, but it's very expensive for a single use.
  • Alternatively, you can also make your own plastic bit by running a normal drill bit backwards on a grinder to taper the point to an angle of about 70 degrees. I opted not to do this for this one-off job.

Below are some pictures showing removal of the old lens, practice hole that I drilled in the old lens, the origin of the crack on the old lens due to a very poorly executed hole (which is why I was so paranoid about getting clean, stress-free holes on the new hatch), pictures of the new holes and other things along the way:

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