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Main Message Board / Re: HX / Oberdorfer pump - fau...
Last post by waughoo - February 27, 2024, 06:24:52 PM
I believe I have seen this mentioned before David.  It is an excellent reminder though as I think if I looked in my pump and saw all the vanes standing out proud and no cracks that I would be a little stymied.  Thanks for the post.
Catalina 34s for Sale / Re: for sale 1988 C34 Tall Rig...
Last post by Noah - February 27, 2024, 06:17:47 PM
Not that I am not rooting for you. To the contrary. "I have the nicest 1990 afloat" (according to me😎) that "has cost us over a million $" (according to my wife 😂), but the insured value is $35,000 (according to BoatUS/Geico)
I and everyone on this Forum would love for you to sell yours at $65,000. I wish you luck. Keep us posted.
Main Message Board / Re: Lithium Install on a MkII
Last post by waughoo - February 27, 2024, 04:48:29 PM
Quote from: Noah on February 27, 2024, 12:29:47 PMDon't mean to hijack this thread, as I own  a MKI , but thought I would jump in for perspective and to check for flaws in my thinking. I have a one-year-old, 460A FLA (4 Trojan 6v) house bank and FLA start battery...


You are in the position of being able to switch to LFP due to having updated/current charge sources, but not really needing to.  The benefits to you are somewhat nil as you are perfectly happy with what you have.  Nothing wrong there (as Stu says).

For me, I want to be able to be on anchor for multiple days WITHOUT running the engine again until I decide to change to another spot.  If for some reason I NEED to recharge at anchor, I want the ability to put a lot of charge in with a short run period.  I HATE noise at anchor so being able to be quiet is king for me.  Even if one has a big alternator and a lead acid bank, the resistance of lead acid limits how much charge you can put back before the current is reduced.

My additional issue is voltage sag with loads.  In watching my current lead acid bank, I routinely have 11.8v powering pumps and things which is just not good for the equipment and at that voltage, the equipment draws more watts.  The last time I was out on the boat, I could not get the furnace to light the glow plug due to voltage sag causing a cut out in the light up procedure.  Because it tries a couple times, the effect of this is the burner getting sooted up making it harder to light next time.  To resolve the cold I was experiencing (it was January at anchor for a quick overnight close to home), I had to start the engine to get the battery voltage up and then it would start the furnace.  While it was on, the battery could power the fans, fuel pump and circ pump (without the engine running), but once the burner shut off, I had to restart the engine again to get the voltage up.

I'll admit the above is also partly due to the age of the batteries, but this is something that just DOESN'T occur with a LFP battery bank.  The pack voltage is so incredibly stable for the duration of usable AH's that it is almost like having a DC conditioner providing power.  This is even true with LARGE inverted loads.  For me this is a big benefit of LFP.

As for the safety comment, as one has all these multiple charge sources working together, having a canbus enabled network for the chargers, consumers, and the bms allows the battery to tell all the chargers and consumers what to do.  The thread we've done a lot of discussing about recently was the shore power and alternator charging at the same time.  With a multi-plus battery charger (shore connected), and a WS500 alternator regulator all talking together on the same canbus with the batteries, the batteries would just tell the regulator, "no thanks... I'm full, please stay at idle).  This is the safety I am referring to.  Additionally, the canbus connection can avoid load dumps from unannounced disconnects etc.  This is not true with a drop in battery, but when they are all meant to work as a system, these safety features are part of the gig.  For me, this is a BIG improvement over the lead acid set up.  It is an elegantly designed system that has a lot of sophisticated networking that happens in the background so I can just enjoy the benefits without having to be that sophisticated monitor when out on vacation!

So... do I need a LFP house bank?  Well, I suppose I don't NEED one, but it sure would... strike that... WILL make cruising my boat the way I use it so much more pleasant with regards to what is important to me.  Plus... I sure do love a good technically challenging project! 
Main Message Board / Re: Lithium Install on a MkII
Last post by Stu Jackson - February 27, 2024, 02:49:05 PM

No, you're not missing anything.  The choice of going to the LFP option is, I believe, primarily How You Use Your Boat.  And you have addressed that quite well.

The advantages of LFP battery technology are:  1)  greater USEFUL storage in the same ah capacity - LFP batteries can "use" between 100% down to 20% of their rated capacity, whereas wet cell technology can only use half;  2) lower voltage sag as SOC declines;  3) ability to absorb much HIGHER recharge rates.

#3 is why Maine Sail notes that the supporting electrical generating capacity part of your SYSTEM is a critical component of any LFP upgrade.  Absent higher capacity alternators properly controlled this important part of LFP technology is essentially wasted.  That's why, for example, I mentioned the use of low amperage dc-dc chargers as a silly way to deal with LFP.

Noah's comments are a perfect example of addressing a Balanced Electrical System.

Alex's post addresses it well also.  His choice makes just as much sense for the way he plans to use his boat.
Main Message Board / Re: HX / Oberdorfer pump - fau...
Last post by Ron Hill - February 27, 2024, 02:26:05 PM
Dave : Looks like an old impeller that finally had the metal to "rubber" bond fail!!

A thought
Main Message Board / Re: Lithium Install on a MkII
Last post by Noah - February 27, 2024, 12:29:47 PM
Don't mean to hijack this thread, as I own  a MKI , but thought I would jump in for perspective and to check for flaws in my thinking. I have a one-year-old, 460A FLA (4 Trojan 6v) house bank and FLA start battery on an echo charger. I could change my house bank to LFP and swap echo for DC/DC to start battery—my battery charger has the LFP profile as does my Balmer regulator. I also have a 2,000 inverter, all with big "new" wiring and proper fusing. what end? My shore power charger is only 40A, my alternator is 95A, and I do not have solar. So, unless I decide to go long distance cruising (which I don't) and want to add high charge-rate output equipment (bigger alternator, which would be a tight fit for anything substantially larger), a bigger shore charger (maybe), and add a solar arch or Bimini with solar, I don't think I would significantly benefit. I think I will just have to stick with my current system and run my engine to charge at sea or at anchor. I get about 3 days at anchor before I need to run the engine for an hour or so, to top back up. Pretty old school but, it will have to do for me under my current thinking. Am I missing anything in my logic?
Main Message Board / HX / Oberdorfer pump - faulty ...
Last post by David Sanner - February 27, 2024, 12:19:35 PM
I just updated the wiki but figured I add my recent experience here.

I noticed yesterday there was no water pumping out of the exhaust.  Quick check of the impeller and it looked fine.  I cleaned the strainer, pulled the hoses and all seemed clear yet it still wouldn't pump.  I popped in an old globe blue impeller and all was well.  Did I miss something?  Slightly worn profile w/ cover plate groves the cause?  Seems like I would still be getting some water as I primed the lines, etc.

Doing some head scratching at home today with what looked like a perfectly good impeller I noticed the metal portion that is keyed to the shaft was more or less free spinning inside the rubber impeller itself.  Poor design I would say as it looks like more of a friction fit between the metal and the rubber. 

Anyway... a simple heads up when doing an impeller check as I'm sure I'm not the first or the last w/ this issue.

Main Message Board / Re: Lithium Install on a MkII
Last post by waughoo - February 27, 2024, 09:19:04 AM
To me, it is a significantly safer system than a lead acid or an agm system due to canbus enabled batteries and charge sources.  The issue though is that most boat's charging infrastructure is old enough not to have the correct charge profiles for LFP which dictates a fair amount of infrastructure upgrades to get the boat set up for LFP.  After that is done though, the benefits are huge.

As for the multi vs the Phoenix, they will require the same wire gauge to opperate (2000w Phoenix inv and a 2000w multi use the same cabling).  I also believe that the Phoenix is approximately the same size as the multi (It was a long time ago that I compared them though).  I honestly doubt there is any reason to separate the inv and charger for your install.  It will complicate things and require you to find more space to mount components.

What I have been doing is upgrading the infrastructure piece by piece so that I can then switch from lead acid to LFP and only have to change the charge profile in the chargers (multi, ws500, and mppt solar if I have any by then).  It allows me to spread the cost and disruption out a bit over time.
Main Message Board / Re: Lithium Install on a MkII
Last post by KeelsonGraham - February 27, 2024, 07:48:05 AM
Hi Alex,

I've looked at the Multiplus, it's a very large bit of kit and my worry is the cable length required to run to somewhere it can fit nicely.

The insurance aspect is definitely troubling me. I've been looking for a qualified electrician to do the job for me.

Having read MaineSail's article and a ton of other stuff, I'm starting to think that this isn't a viable project. There are just so many ways to fry the hugely expensive components.

Main Message Board / Re: Exhaust fumes
Last post by scgunner - February 27, 2024, 06:20:37 AM

Something not right here, you shouldn't need a Bimini to correct the problem. In fact if your boat is still in original configuration you shouldn't have a problem in the first place. I've got a dodger and 1500+ hours motoring and I've never gotten a wiff. Has the exhaust out on your boat been relocated? Are you getting a good exhaust water flow? Is it warm but not hot to the touch?