Messages

I am not a wood expert but can those synthetic looking floorboards be repaired in someway like any ordinary wood. There's a dark discoloration and worn out look at high traffic area just by the galley. Can those be re-worked or should I look to buy a new pieces?

Gentlemen, friends, colleagues...

I am not suggesting boatyard workers are filthy rich or bad people... All I am saying that service industry sucking more and more every passing day...

What I am asking about is that if you are telling a client that in today's economical atmosphere if you claim your services worth $100/hr because you are such a professional at least pls act like one and don't fool around while you're on that client's time and use that $100 worth hour more efficiently.
That's all I am talking about.

And no Mark_53... Despite your rude assumption I am not hovering over any worker and being a PIA. I am just simply witnessing what the heck is going on while I am also on my boat doing my brightwork. Mine is simply an observation of the absurdity going around the boatyard.

I am sorry but I came from a military background. Navy to be specific. When you begin your shift, you begin your shift and WORK! Especially if you ask a lot of $$$ for your time as a professional. Don't yack on your phone ten times a day like a teenager. Don't talk to other people around regarding "them Raiders or 49'ers last game"...

My complaint is about a general issue rather than with individual. I don't understand how they price a job.
For example.
They say they charge $85/hr for labor.
I say OK..
They say boat will be back on the water 5 days later.
I say OK...
They say one of their best guy will be assigned to do all my bottom job. He will do sanding, fixing the catalina smile with the blisters and bottom paint alone.
I say very good!
They say I have to expect a bill around $4500 for labor + materials = $5000-$5500 I understand the materials part of it...

Then I begin to calculate. Now, 5 days approximately is about 40 work hrs. 40hrs x $85 = $3400... Hmmm why the $1,100 discrepancy..
Let's try to figure out this way by reverse engineering the pricing to hours: $4500 / $85/hr-rate = 52.9 hrs of labor.
Let's divide that 52.9 hrs to 5 days = That's nearly 10,5 hrs a day during my dry dock days.

And in this calculation I think I am reasonable to expect to see that person or any person in that manner who I am being charged for $85/hr working on my boat for 10,5 hrs every single one of that 5 days. Right?

But when I see that individual working one day 3 hrs, next day 6 hrs following day 4 hrs... I am naturally thinking " ok, this guy worked 13 hrs in 3 days and 2 more days left before I get back in the water. 52.9 hrs... minus 13; well boatyard owes me 39.9 hrs within the next two days which i know won't be fulfilled.

Now I can't figure it out what kind of pricing I got...
Because boatyard mgr says their policy is not to give a fixed project price since they can't be sure what sort of unexpected problems may arise. Which I understand and agree.
That's why they say $85/hr labor rate they will be working on my boat. However long it may take the finish the job correctly. Which I agree with that too.
But in given time frame neither policy calculates what i am ending up with...

In my calculation that $85'hr labor rate ending up more like $$140-150/hr. rate and that bothers me!

Mainesail>>> As I mention I am currently a commercial whale watching charter company owner and worked as Captain for the last 38 years all over the world. Greek Islands, Mediterranean, Caribbean, South Pacific, Red Sea, and California for the last 22 years. As a commercial marine business owner I am very well aware of the expenses and the hardship caused by the endless rules and regulations.

In 2013 I have to throw away perfectly OK, working condition two Detroit Diesels and replaced them with John Deere because of the EPA decision and ended up $150,000 in debt.
A passenger, 3 weeks after he has been on our boat suddenly called me out of nowhere and claimed that he was hurt during the trip 3 weeks ago and sued us.. Well our insurance paid him $20,000 and raised our premium from $7000 yr to $9,500yr and after a similar incident now they are refusing to renew our policy which will cause me to get another more costly insurance.
Department of Corporations, USCG, Harbor Management, Army C. of Engineers, IRS everybody either asking money or ordering me to do stuff that costs me a lot of money. But still, each of my customers pays the same fixed fee, get on my boat and still receive a 3hr tour without interruptions.
I don't tell them " do you know how much EPA requirements cost me?" and change my service upon that. Either I do what I do or not! But I don't continue to do what I do while acting unprofessional because of the hardships involved in my work field.

Also, yes friends. I am well aware of the option of taking my boat to other places who won't screw me over? I am in CA and I've heard a very good boatyard in Chile  . You think I should take the boat there to save a $1000-$1,500???

C'mon guys! You've never stuck in a one horse town with one gas station and a scary looking mechanic? If I had more options by the next door trust me I will go there. Unfortunately, spending $2,000 more to save $1,500 does not justify the trip for me!

Still, it bothers me to be stuck in this one horse town and being treated this way.
I knoooow, it's not the end of the world.

I don't gamble, too old for nightlife, wife is away for the week helping our daughter with grandkids and if I don't rant here between my friends what the heck am I supposed to do?

;)

Safe sailing all,

I don't want to name, names because basically 99.9% of them are the same.

I hate one part of the boating: Boatyards.... I mean the attitude of the workers towards the clientele on most boatyards.

These places charge between $85 to $100, depending on whatever they're doing.
I mean c'mon guys I am a Captain, my daughter is a teacher, my wife was a banker, my father was an office manager, my sister was a stewardess and none of us made $85-$100/hr. Yet we worked while acting as professionals. Yet, these people do not show 1% of that respect. Neither to their profession nor to their clientele.

Every time I go to boatyard around 10-11 am to check the progress on my boat I never see anyone working on it.
Then finally 20-30 minutes after my arrival, some worker who supposed to be working on my boat since that morning appears around my boat, moving with the speed of a glacier and begins to setup his magical equipment (sander), then he realizes he needs an extension cord.

After finding and bringing the extension cord, he realizes he forgot sanding pads for his equipment and walks back in the boatyard store 50 yards away. When I don't see him coming out after 5-6 minutes I walk to the store to see him chit chatting with a painter (who supposed to be working on someone else's boat but only to be there to look for a thin wire to fix his paint-gun because he just realized that it was clogged).

But of course, they know each other and probably since for a few weeks didn't get together. So chit chat is a must for them while the $85-$100/hr meter is running for the idiots like us.

Then he sees me walking in and laughs at me like "haha I know I am busted" and walks back to my boat. So about 15-20 minutes after he first appeared by my boat eventually he begins sanding.

So I am relieved to see at last work has begun and I leave to get a part from my other boat which is on the water at the other side of the marina. I go away 15-20 minutes, pick my tool and when I come back he is nowhere around my boat.

While I wonder "where the heck he went know", I see him coming out of the boatyard store again. His reason to be there? Well, he needed more sanding pads!
I am thinking "who begins to sand the bottom of a 34 foot boat with 1 pad on the machine and no spare lying around?

I swear to you guys, after probably another 15 minutes of sanding, noise stopped and I came out of my boat to see why... Guess what? He is going to lunch break.

Now, I am not a heartless, vicious dictator! I don't mind people taking breaks during their work whether to go to bathroom or have lunch or have some water whatever...
What pisses me off, is that this goes all day and at the end of the day boatyard puts on my account that he worked on my boat at 10 am to 3 pm... That is 5 hrs of labor charge...
Believe me if I use a chronometer every time he does something within 10-15 ft of my boat it will not add up to 2 hrs. Yet a 5 hr labor slapped on my bill.
When boat is at the yard for a week everyday it goes like this and at the end I probably get billed 60% more than I should.

Not my boat alone... I see my friends' boat on dry dock around me too. Same thing with them too.

Painter comes to my friend's boat and spends almost an hr to fix his paint gun . Then he talks on his phone God knows how many times, chit chat with other workers on nearby boats, talks to other boat owners. Goes on another boat to inspect a prospective job to give that boat owner an estimate while he is on the clock for my friend's boat.

In my last 38 years as a professional mariner, storms, emergencies, tragedies, engine failures, unreasonable clients, etc... I saw every bad thing imaginable on the water. Yet, no matter which country I am in I never hate anything related to sailing/cruising as much as I hate to be at a boatyard!

Wheeewww.. Now I can go to sleep!

jim,

you need to power the panel (gauges, preheat, lights, starter solenoid, blower) either way (w or w/o the ammeter.)  It's the power wire that is the overcurrent hazard.  it DOESN'T MATTER what current you 'normally' have going thru it (it will technically handle a realistic charge current, tho with voltage loss.)  It's the mere fact that you have an UNPROTECTED wire with large amperage storage batteries behind it that is THAT ONE PARTICULAR hazard (ie, there's other hazards.)  Removing the ammeter has to do w/ providing better charging and (not) melting the gummy bear plug w/ the charge current. 

Welcome to old sailboat ownership.

search the forum also -- I have RANTS on there about the harness "upgrade" that is BOTH non-abyc compliant AND does not solve the fire hazard problem, NOR correct much of the overall bad OEM harness in the first place.  All that for close to 200 bucks. 

kk

Uh-huh! Now it makes sense...
Hey at least RANTing is free!

Read mine on another thread regarding the boatyards...

At this point I don't really care. I wish there was a "buy this crap, remove and throw away the old one and plug this one in, ta da you're done" kind of solution... I don't care if it was costing $1000...

Thanks Stu. I got that part from endless reading of the great material over here. The only issue "the more I read the more confused I get" 

Can this FIRE DANGER issue simply eliminated by the removal of the thin wire between the engine and the ammeter?

I mean if the current is causing all the problems, then, if there's no wire connecting these two there won't be a current around to worry about. Isn't it?

Yes there will be a non functioning ammeter but at this point what i understand is that a "non functioning ammeter is preferred to have a functioning but rather risky one may cause your boat to go down in flames" ...

By all means I don't mind to upgrade to a voltmeter but in an emergency as of tomorrow morning I can stop the risk by eliminating the connection between the ammeter and the engine. Correct?

that's called typical catalina/bristol/seaward wiring.  LOL!  (actually NOT funny, but sad.)   

That could certainly be a source of an overcurrent condition, but not the (non ABYC compliant) Universal Motor's OEM harness situation to which I was referring  -- you have a HOT (if battery selector is on) 10 awg wire going to the panel, with about 800 amps of current behind it and NO overcurrent protection on that wire.  Can you say "chafe," followed by "glowing filament," followed by "FIRE"?

Q?s:

• do you have a voltmeter or ammeter?
• behind the panel do you have an 8 pin (I coined "Gummy Bear") plug on that harness?
• do you have the 8 pin plug at the engine end of the harness?

kk

LOL & SAD

1) Ammeter
2) Have no clue; I'll check tomorrow !
3) Have no clue; I'll check tomorrow !

Is this the one so called fire hazard and needs to be upgraded????

Thank you guys.

No, I don't mean lifting her up from the ocean... She is too old for that and she doesn't dive from the boat anymore. She liked to get in our swimming pool via steps or play in the waves on the beach surf line.

I need to get her up in to the boat from the docks. We have flimsy floating docks in our poor marina and they move a lot. That already scares the heck out of her. Then the aft section of the boat seems too far away from the dock for her to leap on to. Plus, she hates to climb any kind of steps.
So our only option is to lift her by using a life vest to support her weight and pushing and shoving from the mid section of the boat where is the closest to the dock. But of course that section lifelines does not removable and adds extra height for us to deal with during the lifting an 85 lbs creature.

I may change the design of my lifelines and make the midship lifeline on my dock side removable for entry/exit the vessel.

I understand your motive, I was asking Jim what he meant by "improved."
I wish RC had addressed the potential for run aways -- I have never heard of one on a boat, one in a hundred? thousand, million? 
Very small I'd venture a guess, yet there are still owners with harnesses that have no overcurrent protection (and that HAS caused fires.)  go figure

-Ken

What I meant with "improvement" is that K&N filters generally claims that their product increase the horsepower on car engines. I was wondering if that was the reason some upgrade their air filter to K&N...?

Hello capt.

SInce you have the original in hand, put them flat and mesure outside dimension, cut piece of plywood to install temporary while not at boat.

Take the original piece to a woodshop near you and ask them what you would like.  They will be please to make new one and even add a personal touch.

That's why I need to be on a board like this... See, as a typical consumer I never thought of that!
Thank you!!!

i tried Catalina Direct but all they have are hatch boards for a C25.

Catalina Yachts is still in business, thought you would know this.  Have you tried them?

That said, while yours may be in poor shape, since they are most likely solid, like ours are, have you considered refinishing them?  Teak cleaner followed by teak brightener, followed by the coating of your choice or none.   

Obviously I am going to refinish them but my worry is not that they look ugly but structurally worn. I mean the top portion of the bottom piece looks like it was shaved unevenly.

I guess I can always get a dark colored thick plexiglass cut to fit that area but I still prefer the classic varnished wood look.

We have a 10,5 yr old yellow lab. Even though she loves the water, she is scared to death from any kind of ladders or steps. So in the past it was always a struggle of getting her on board was a combination of pushing and shoving her. But in those times she was 4-5 years old. Now she is an old lady we don't want to hurt her.
Is anybody came across a better and easier way to get a 85lbs doggie on board a C34?

Thanks Stu.. Appreciated!

Just curious...

When Honda Goldwings in the early 2000s found out that mainframe cracks were appearing they were recalled.
Is there such a thing happened with Catalina @ Woodlands Hill ever?

I mean after all isn't this a production/engineering defect ?

Jim, 

while I oftentimes lament about instances of poor engineering (the sherwood pump, putting wood into a keel stub, exploding alternator brackets, gummy bear harness plugs) I wouldn't say the smile is an engineering or manufacturing defect.  Rather it was using the state if the art materials at the time -- polyester bedding of the keel to the stub, which is hydrophilic and deteriorates -- and CONTRIBUTES TO the instances (but not the sole cause) of the smile.  Epoxy and 5200 really wasn't the norm then.

When alternate materials are used, there is no smile.  For instance, my C30 smile and keel joint deterioration showed up in less than 9 years (9 yrs old when I got her, and crack already developed.)   I fixed it "permanently" over 20 years ago and not even a hint of a smile since then.  I don't see that as a defect and haven't ever felt CTY was responsible for fixing it, especially if something appears after 10 years. 

However I say (JTSO) it's VERY different with something that is obviously designed or manufactured incorrectly (Universal's exploding alternator bracket or Universal pumping high charge current through a corrosion- and high-resistance-prone plug ), or was done out of the norm (Catalina fabricating its own poorly manufactured substitute for the plug on the Universal harness.)  Note out of the norm, because the material used with CTY's poor attempt at the plug deteriorates and is a fire hazard, while Universal's plug does not deteriorate (excepting for "scorching" due to the poor decision to push the charge current thru the plug.) 

Anyway, I hope you see my (JTSO) differentiation between examples of a "defect" and a "non defect"?

-Ken

Absolutely I see your point Ken. Thanks for detailed explanation.

My boat has two piece of those wood and look pretty warn out. Do they sell those pieces?