I hate to be on the dry.... *RANT*

[Capt.Jim]

I don't want to name, names because basically 99.9% of them are the same.

I hate one part of the boating: Boatyards.... I mean the attitude of the workers towards the clientele on most boatyards.

These places charge between $85 to $100, depending on whatever they're doing.
I mean c'mon guys I am a Captain, my daughter is a teacher, my wife was a banker, my father was an office manager, my sister was a stewardess and none of us made $85-$100/hr. Yet we worked while acting as professionals. Yet, these people do not show 1% of that respect. Neither to their profession nor to their clientele.

Every time I go to boatyard around 10-11 am to check the progress on my boat I never see anyone working on it.
Then finally 20-30 minutes after my arrival, some worker who supposed to be working on my boat since that morning appears around my boat, moving with the speed of a glacier and begins to setup his magical equipment (sander), then he realizes he needs an extension cord.

After finding and bringing the extension cord, he realizes he forgot sanding pads for his equipment and walks back in the boatyard store 50 yards away. When I don't see him coming out after 5-6 minutes I walk to the store to see him chit chatting with a painter (who supposed to be working on someone else's boat but only to be there to look for a thin wire to fix his paint-gun because he just realized that it was clogged).

But of course, they know each other and probably since for a few weeks didn't get together. So chit chat is a must for them while the $85-$100/hr meter is running for the idiots like us.

Then he sees me walking in and laughs at me like "haha I know I am busted" and walks back to my boat. So about 15-20 minutes after he first appeared by my boat eventually he begins sanding.

So I am relieved to see at last work has begun and I leave to get a part from my other boat which is on the water at the other side of the marina. I go away 15-20 minutes, pick my tool and when I come back he is nowhere around my boat.

While I wonder "where the heck he went know", I see him coming out of the boatyard store again. His reason to be there? Well, he needed more sanding pads!
I am thinking "who begins to sand the bottom of a 34 foot boat with 1 pad on the machine and no spare lying around?

I swear to you guys, after probably another 15 minutes of sanding, noise stopped and I came out of my boat to see why... Guess what? He is going to lunch break.

Now, I am not a heartless, vicious dictator! I don't mind people taking breaks during their work whether to go to bathroom or have lunch or have some water whatever...
What pisses me off, is that this goes all day and at the end of the day boatyard puts on my account that he worked on my boat at 10 am to 3 pm... That is 5 hrs of labor charge...
Believe me if I use a chronometer every time he does something within 10-15 ft of my boat it will not add up to 2 hrs. Yet a 5 hr labor slapped on my bill.
When boat is at the yard for a week everyday it goes like this and at the end I probably get billed 60% more than I should.

Not my boat alone... I see my friends' boat on dry dock around me too. Same thing with them too.

Painter comes to my friend's boat and spends almost an hr to fix his paint gun . Then he talks on his phone God knows how many times, chit chat with other workers on nearby boats, talks to other boat owners. Goes on another boat to inspect a prospective job to give that boat owner an estimate while he is on the clock for my friend's boat.

In my last 38 years as a professional mariner, storms, emergencies, tragedies, engine failures, unreasonable clients, etc... I saw every bad thing imaginable on the water. Yet, no matter which country I am in I never hate anything related to sailing/cruising as much as I hate to be at a boatyard!

Wheeewww.. Now I can go to sleep!

[mark_53]

I don't want to name, names because basically 99.9% of them are the same.

I hate one part of the boating: Boatyards.... I mean the attitude of the workers towards the clientele on most boatyards.

These places charge between $85 to $100, depending on whatever they're doing.
I mean c'mon guys I am a Captain, my daughter is a teacher, my wife was a banker, my father was an office manager, my sister was a stewardess and none of us made $85-$100/hr. Yet we worked while acting as professionals. Yet, these people do not show 1% of that respect. Neither to their profession nor to their clientele.

Every time I go to boatyard around 10-11 am to check the progress on my boat I never see anyone working on it.
Then finally 20-30 minutes after my arrival, some worker who supposed to be working on my boat since that morning appears around my boat, moving with the speed of a glacier and begins to setup his magical equipment (sander), then he realizes he needs an extension cord.

After finding and bringing the extension cord, he realizes he forgot sanding pads for his equipment and walks back in the boatyard store 50 yards away. When I don't see him coming out after 5-6 minutes I walk to the store to see him chit chatting with a painter (who supposed to be working on someone else's boat but only to be there to look for a thin wire to fix his paint-gun because he just realized that it was clogged).

But of course, they know each other and probably since for a few weeks didn't get together. So chit chat is a must for them while the $85-$100/hr meter is running for the idiots like us.

Then he sees me walking in and laughs at me like "haha I know I am busted" and walks back to my boat. So about 15-20 minutes after he first appeared by my boat eventually he begins sanding.

So I am relieved to see at last work has begun and I leave to get a part from my other boat which is on the water at the other side of the marina. I go away 15-20 minutes, pick my tool and when I come back he is nowhere around my boat.

While I wonder "where the heck he went know", I see him coming out of the boatyard store again. His reason to be there? Well, he needed more sanding pads!
I am thinking "who begins to sand the bottom of a 34 foot boat with 1 pad on the machine and no spare lying around?

I swear to you guys, after probably another 15 minutes of sanding, noise stopped and I came out of my boat to see why... Guess what? He is going to lunch break.

Now, I am not a heartless, vicious dictator! I don't mind people taking breaks during their work whether to go to bathroom or have lunch or have some water whatever...
What pisses me off, is that this goes all day and at the end of the day boatyard puts on my account that he worked on my boat at 10 am to 3 pm... That is 5 hrs of labor charge...
Believe me if I use a chronometer every time he does something within 10-15 ft of my boat it will not add up to 2 hrs. Yet a 5 hr labor slapped on my bill.
When boat is at the yard for a week everyday it goes like this and at the end I probably get billed 60% more than I should.

Not my boat alone... I see my friends' boat on dry dock around me too. Same thing with them too.

Painter comes to my friend's boat and spends almost an hr to fix his paint gun . Then he talks on his phone God knows how many times, chit chat with other workers on nearby boats, talks to other boat owners. Goes on another boat to inspect a prospective job to give that boat owner an estimate while he is on the clock for my friend's boat.

In my last 38 years as a professional mariner, storms, emergencies, tragedies, engine failures, unreasonable clients, etc... I saw every bad thing imaginable on the water. Yet, no matter which country I am in I never hate anything related to sailing/cruising as much as I hate to be at a boatyard!

Wheeewww.. Now I can go to sleep!

Sounds to me like you are hovering over workers being a PIA.  If you've done much work on your boat, you know there are always things you left at home.  At the yard, they have everything they need there so no need to plan what to bring like your 50 miles away.  I don't know the facts but if they are truly ripping you off, find another yard.

[mainesail]

I don't want to name, names because basically 99.9% of them are the same.

I hate one part of the boating: Boatyards.... I mean the attitude of the workers towards the clientele on most boatyards.

These places charge between $85 to $100, depending on whatever they're doing.
I mean c'mon guys I am a Captain, my daughter is a teacher, my wife was a banker, my father was an office manager, my sister was a stewardess and none of us made $85-$100/hr. Yet we worked while acting as professionals. Yet, these people do not show 1% of that respect. Neither to their profession nor to their clientele.

Trust me there are no yard workers making 200K per year. Just because the yard charges $85-100/hr does not mean the worker is getting paid anywhere near that. Top senior techs in yards are barely breaking $30.00/hr and most are barely making $15 - $20.00/hr.. The rest goes to overhead, taxes, health insurance, utilities, boatyard revenue, etc..

Overhead for a waterfront boatyard is insane. One of my friends, a boatyard owner, had to spend over 450K in the last 4 years on EPA mandates. On top of that he pays hundreds of thousands every four to five years to keep his marina dredged. A new mast crane truck was 125K, a new travel lift was over 400K. This then required the entire lift-pit area to be updated to the tune of 265K and multiple ACOE permitting problems, where the lawyers made tens of thousands.. Then of course was the new OSHA and EPA compliant paint booth which over 200k... I won't even go into the legal battles he has had. In one case a boat owner ignored an insurance survey, did not address his thru-hull fittings per the survey, the boat sank and spilled fuel. The boat owners insurance company refused to pay because he ignored the mandate to fix said items and refused to pay for clean up and removal of the vessel. You guessed it the boatyards insurance had to pick up the cost which caused his premium to increase by over $4500.00 per year. I believe he is still in court over that one and the lawyers seem to be the only ones making money. Then there is the neighbor who is suing them over noise and view issues. This despite the boat yard having been there for 70 years longer than this guys house has even existed.

If anyone thinks boatyard owners are getting rich, think again. I am honestly amazed they can stay in business at $85-$100/hr..

Every time I go to boatyard around 10-11 am to check the progress on my boat I never see anyone working on it.
Then finally 20-30 minutes after my arrival, some worker who supposed to be working on my boat since that morning appears around my boat, moving with the speed of a glacier and begins to setup his magical equipment (sander), then he realizes he needs an extension cord.

After finding and bringing the extension cord, he realizes he forgot sanding pads for his equipment and walks back in the boatyard store 50 yards away. When I don't see him coming out after 5-6 minutes I walk to the store to see him chit chatting with a painter (who supposed to be working on someone else's boat but only to be there to look for a thin wire to fix his paint-gun because he just realized that it was clogged).

But of course, they know each other and probably since for a few weeks didn't get together. So chit chat is a must for them while the $85-$100/hr meter is running for the idiots like us.

Then he sees me walking in and laughs at me like "haha I know I am busted" and walks back to my boat. So about 15-20 minutes after he first appeared by my boat eventually he begins sanding.

So I am relieved to see at last work has begun and I leave to get a part from my other boat which is on the water at the other side of the marina. I go away 15-20 minutes, pick my tool and when I come back he is nowhere around my boat.

While I wonder "where the heck he went know", I see him coming out of the boatyard store again. His reason to be there? Well, he needed more sanding pads!
I am thinking "who begins to sand the bottom of a 34 foot boat with 1 pad on the machine and no spare lying around?

I swear to you guys, after probably another 15 minutes of sanding, noise stopped and I came out of my boat to see why... Guess what? He is going to lunch break.



Not my boat alone... I see my friends' boat on dry dock around me too. Same thing with them too.

Painter comes to my friend's boat and spends almost an hr to fix his paint gun . Then he talks on his phone God knows how many times, chit chat with other workers on nearby boats, talks to other boat owners. Goes on another boat to inspect a prospective job to give that boat owner an estimate while he is on the clock for my friend's boat.

In my last 38 years as a professional mariner, storms, emergencies, tragedies, engine failures, unreasonable clients, etc... I saw every bad thing imaginable on the water. Yet, no matter which country I am in I never hate anything related to sailing/cruising as much as I hate to be at a boatyard!

Wheeewww.. Now I can go to sleep!

I would suggest that you bring your boat home, or rent your own space, and then find and independent contractor who does good work or just learn to DIY more.... Doing the same thing over and over is not likely going to yield different results.   

What pisses me off, is that this goes all day and at the end of the day boatyard puts on my account that he worked on my boat at 10 am to 3 pm... That is 5 hrs of labor charge...
Believe me if I use a chronometer every time he does something within 10-15 ft of my boat it will not add up to 2 hrs. Yet a 5 hr labor slapped on my bill.
When boat is at the yard for a week everyday it goes like this and at the end I probably get billed 60% more than I should.

Yet almost no boat owner I talk to is outraged by the automotive industry, who still works of the antiquated, and highly profitable, "flat rate" system. With flat rate the book tells you it's a 5 hour job so you pay $130.00 per hour (yes my dealership is $130.00 hr), for 5 hours of labor, only to have the service tech show up in the waiting area calling your name 1:15 minutes later to tell you your car is ready. (this actually happened three months ago)

Good dealerships strategically place techs on jobs where they work fastest. The faster a tech works the more he & the dealership get paid. My friend Eric's younger brother is a senior Honda/Acura tech and he gets paid, on average, for 14-23 hours each day. Some really good days he can exceed 25 hours of "flat rate" work in a single day..

He's extremely good and fast at what he does and is a huge money maker for the dealership.  His hourly pay, after 8 years at this dealership, is $33.00 per hour but the dealer charges $137.00 per hour to the customer.

You pay for the flat rate regardless of how long it took the guy to fix your car yet I rarely if ever hear boaters complain about this.... (wink)

Despite being an Acura tech he did the timing belt, water pump & radiator fluid on my wife's old Pilot (the Acura MDX is just a glorified Pilot) in 1:40 minutes.. IIRC the flat rate on this job was well in excess of 5 flat rate hours. Just on this one job he banked in approx 3:20+ minutes of free labor he never actually worked.

Not all boatyards rip customers off and here in Maine we do have some good ones as well as some bad ones. As a boater you really need to do your homework on a boatyard before pulling the trigger..

[Braxton]

mainesail took a lot of wind out of my sails by covering a lot of the points I was going to make.

But a few other thoughts.   

Most importantly, make sure that you are a prepared and active consumer.   Did you check reviews, did you compare rates, did you get recommendations?   If you are unsatisfied with the work did you take your business elsewhere next time?   Like any business in the boating world there are scrupulous and unscrupulous people, lazy and hard working people, good people and bad people.   Make sure you are supporting the good ones and avoiding the bad ones.   Get recommendations, give recommendations, be active in your boating community so that you have the contacts to do this.    I know in a lot of locations this can be hard as their isn't a lot of competition in the area but do your best.

To increase that level of competition find a DIY yard that allows contractors in.   Then you are not at the mercy of the yard that hauled your boat out.   You can also bring in the best contractor for the work you need done.   Make sure you are using the right contractor.   Your diesel mechanic may or may not be the best guy to do an engine and shaft alignment, the guy who does your rigging is probably not the guy to paint your bottom, etc.

Find a contractor that will be accommodating and helpful with letting you do a lot of the work.    I just finished a project that had 24+ hours of labor in it.   I only used a contractor for 3 1/2 hours of some of the trickier stuff.   The rest I did myself.   It saved me money, educated me on the workings of my boat, and gave me the piece of mind that for the important stuff I had someone more experienced then me doing it.

If you find someone good at $85 an hour that is fully licensed, bonded, insured, etc.   Use them and don't complain about it.   At least around here that's a pretty good rate.   To mainesail's point, compare that to your auto mechanic and you won't feel so bad.

For some work like getting your bottom painted consider using someone who will give you a fixed bid.   This obviously does not work for a lot of repair type stuff on a boat because as we all know once you start tearing into a boat all sorts of unexpected things come up but for routine stuff it can work well.    The you don't have to worry about their work rate.   You can just let them do what they do knowing that you have a set price already.

[KWKloeber]

JIm,

I'm sure you don't be reminded and experience it yourself -- that the cost of doing business, any business, but especially in the service industry is usually ridiculous and gets worse every year.  Ever wonder how many times a business has gotten away by the skin, from being sued of something stupid like tripping over a pebble in the parking lot? For those times, there's the times they ARE sued. I've been in the service realm for 40 years and luckily haven't been in that situation, but know of many who have been. Yet my clients and customers want to know why they can't get buy time for $50 anymore, and today fees are $100.  And, why it takes "so much time" to accomplish a simple task that "used to" take half the time.  Because everyone has to look be looking over their shoulders.

That said, there's no excuse for ripping off a customer on actual hours on a job.  If that's the case, have you talked honestly and openly to the owner or yard foreman?  Yard jockey millennials who are trying to scrape a buck while doing crappy, manual labor during college or high school aren't as, let me say, "honest" and "conscientious" as "we" were and it;s about "them" not their customer..  Fact of life to live with unfortunately, but the owner should surely want to know what's going on.  But a "fatherly" chat with the yard jockey first might also do some good as to "what's right by the customer, and what the customer should expect." Bring it home and put them in the shoes of every customer -- "would you want to pay for movie tickets or repairing your iphone if you were getting ripped off?  We'll then your customers shouldn't be either."

-ken

[Paulus]

I have been with the same yard in Muskegon for the past 38 years.  I appreciate their work and they stand behind their work, not always happy with the cost.  I think if you want to go on rants, maybe you should create a blog.  Not much fun reading the message board these days. : :
Paul

[Capt.Jim]

Gentlemen, friends, colleagues...

I am not suggesting boatyard workers are filthy rich or bad people... All I am saying that service industry sucking more and more every passing day...

What I am asking about is that if you are telling a client that in today's economical atmosphere if you claim your services worth $100/hr because you are such a professional at least pls act like one and don't fool around while you're on that client's time and use that $100 worth hour more efficiently.
That's all I am talking about.

And no Mark_53... Despite your rude assumption I am not hovering over any worker and being a PIA. I am just simply witnessing what the heck is going on while I am also on my boat doing my brightwork. Mine is simply an observation of the absurdity going around the boatyard.

I am sorry but I came from a military background. Navy to be specific. When you begin your shift, you begin your shift and WORK! Especially if you ask a lot of $$$ for your time as a professional. Don't yack on your phone ten times a day like a teenager. Don't talk to other people around regarding "them Raiders or 49'ers last game"...

My complaint is about a general issue rather than with individual. I don't understand how they price a job.
For example.
They say they charge $85/hr for labor.
I say OK..
They say boat will be back on the water 5 days later.
I say OK...
They say one of their best guy will be assigned to do all my bottom job. He will do sanding, fixing the catalina smile with the blisters and bottom paint alone.
I say very good!
They say I have to expect a bill around $4500 for labor + materials = $5000-$5500 I understand the materials part of it...

Then I begin to calculate. Now, 5 days approximately is about 40 work hrs. 40hrs x $85 = $3400... Hmmm why the $1,100 discrepancy..
Let's try to figure out this way by reverse engineering the pricing to hours: $4500 / $85/hr-rate = 52.9 hrs of labor.
Let's divide that 52.9 hrs to 5 days = That's nearly 10,5 hrs a day during my dry dock days.

And in this calculation I think I am reasonable to expect to see that person or any person in that manner who I am being charged for $85/hr working on my boat for 10,5 hrs every single one of that 5 days. Right?

But when I see that individual working one day 3 hrs, next day 6 hrs following day 4 hrs... I am naturally thinking " ok, this guy worked 13 hrs in 3 days and 2 more days left before I get back in the water. 52.9 hrs... minus 13; well boatyard owes me 39.9 hrs within the next two days which i know won't be fulfilled.

Now I can't figure it out what kind of pricing I got...
Because boatyard mgr says their policy is not to give a fixed project price since they can't be sure what sort of unexpected problems may arise. Which I understand and agree.
That's why they say $85/hr labor rate they will be working on my boat. However long it may take the finish the job correctly. Which I agree with that too.
But in given time frame neither policy calculates what i am ending up with...

In my calculation that $85'hr labor rate ending up more like $$140-150/hr. rate and that bothers me!

Mainesail>>> As I mention I am currently a commercial whale watching charter company owner and worked as Captain for the last 38 years all over the world. Greek Islands, Mediterranean, Caribbean, South Pacific, Red Sea, and California for the last 22 years. As a commercial marine business owner I am very well aware of the expenses and the hardship caused by the endless rules and regulations.

In 2013 I have to throw away perfectly OK, working condition two Detroit Diesels and replaced them with John Deere because of the EPA decision and ended up $150,000 in debt.
A passenger, 3 weeks after he has been on our boat suddenly called me out of nowhere and claimed that he was hurt during the trip 3 weeks ago and sued us.. Well our insurance paid him $20,000 and raised our premium from $7000 yr to $9,500yr and after a similar incident now they are refusing to renew our policy which will cause me to get another more costly insurance.
Department of Corporations, USCG, Harbor Management, Army C. of Engineers, IRS everybody either asking money or ordering me to do stuff that costs me a lot of money. But still, each of my customers pays the same fixed fee, get on my boat and still receive a 3hr tour without interruptions.
I don't tell them " do you know how much EPA requirements cost me?" and change my service upon that. Either I do what I do or not! But I don't continue to do what I do while acting unprofessional because of the hardships involved in my work field.

Also, yes friends. I am well aware of the option of taking my boat to other places who won't screw me over? I am in CA and I've heard a very good boatyard in Chile  . You think I should take the boat there to save a $1000-$1,500???

C'mon guys! You've never stuck in a one horse town with one gas station and a scary looking mechanic? If I had more options by the next door trust me I will go there. Unfortunately, spending $2,000 more to save $1,500 does not justify the trip for me!

Still, it bothers me to be stuck in this one horse town and being treated this way.
I knoooow, it's not the end of the world.

I don't gamble, too old for nightlife, wife is away for the week helping our daughter with grandkids and if I don't rant here between my friends what the heck am I supposed to do?

;)

Safe sailing all,

[KWKloeber]

jim

Did the yard provide a written quote, with an estimate (not guarantee) of hours / labor rates, and materials? All the things you are saying make sense, but not at this time -- should be asked before the job and then you could have recourse when you see the yard jockey working on the job an actual 3 hours or whatever.  Caveat emptor. 
What gets me is when people complain but without basis - but you seem to have a good footing on your points.\

[mark_53]

Jim;
Thanks for clarifying your wife is away, that sheds light on the rant.  Since you haven't actually been billed yet I wouldn't be to concerned. They may just have given you a high quote so your happy if it comes in under.  Maybe wishful thinking but wait until you get the bill before you get your knickers in a bunch. Bottom line is you agreed on an approximate price to get a job done. If the final price comes in close to what was bid you have nothing to complain about regardless of how hard you feel they worked. This is not the Navy your dealing with.  In civilian life, chit chat during work is not unusual. Heck, it's hard enough to find people to actually show up on a regular basis.
Most of us learn to do some of the things your having done ourselves since labor is so expensive.  I had my boat hauled earlier this year and power washed.  I did the final sanding.  With an ablate paint all I used was a stiff bristle brush for an hour or two.  Since I never repaired a blister, I had a guy grind them out for me.  Charged me $10 for about 5 or 6 small blisters.  In the spring I'll have them filled when it's dried out.  I'll do the bottom paint myself.  How hard is it to roll on a few coats of paint?

[Capt.Jim]

Jim;
Thanks for clarifying your wife is away, that sheds light on the rant.  Since you haven't actually been billed yet I wouldn't be to concerned. They may just have given you a high quote so your happy if it comes in under.  Maybe wishful thinking but wait until you get the bill before you get your knickers in a bunch. Bottom line is you agreed on an approximate price to get a job done. If the final price comes in close to what was bid you have nothing to complain about regardless of how hard you feel they worked. This is not the Navy your dealing with.  In civilian life, chit chat during work is not unusual. Heck, it's hard enough to find people to actually show up on a regular basis.
Most of us learn to do some of the things your having done ourselves since labor is so expensive.  I had my boat hauled earlier this year and power washed.  I did the final sanding.  With an ablate paint all I used was a stiff bristle brush for an hour or two.  Since I never repaired a blister, I had a guy grind them out for me.  Charged me $10 for about 5 or 6 small blisters.  In the spring I'll have them filled when it's dried out.  I'll do the bottom paint myself.  How hard is it to roll on a few coats of paint?

haha, oh my friend I'll buy you a lobster dinner if that happens. But my last estimate (for my commercial boat) was around $9000 or worst case scenario 10... Ended up being $18,000 even mgr was ashamed and he told me to pay $12,000 and we will be even.
It's like government bill! Never gets lower these darn things...
Where did I put that whisk bottle?

[Capt.Jim]

jim

Did the yard provide a written quote, with an estimate (not guarantee) of hours / labor rates, and materials? All the things you are saying make sense, but not at this time -- should be asked before the job and then you could have recourse when you see the yard jockey working on the job an actual 3 hours or whatever.  Caveat emptor. 
What gets me is when people complain but without basis - but you seem to have a good footing on your points.\

yes they did.

To be honest, I was complaining about the absurdity of their system. They are not dishonest people. They just don't know any better system than what they use to do. Manager and most of the crew's age at their early 30s and I feel frustrated with the new " just chill out, relaaaax, no problem dude, we will take care of you " generation I guess...
God darn it, I am becoming an grumpy old man! My father used to be like that and i hated him for that!

I just hate uncertainty...

[KWKloeber]

ok, so what was the written estimated hours and hourly rate?  and how many days to do it?
did they break it down by line item at all (you know like military purchasing LOL)?

k

[Capt.Jim]

ok, so what was the written estimated hours and hourly rate?  and how many days to do it?
did they break it down by line item at all (you know like military purchasing LOL)?

k

- I was already on the dry Monday 28th. But no work has been done that day other than haul out and placed on stands...
- Tuesday 29th - Only work done from 3:00pm to 4:00pm he began sanding the bottom. 1 hr Labor
- Wednesday 30th - Bottom sanding has been completed. Catalina smile grinding done. 6 hrs Labor
- Thursday 1st - Catalina smile and 20 little blisters on the keel has been treated. Propeller and shaft cleaned. Buffing topsides started 4 hrs Labor
- Friday 2nd -
- Monday 5th
- Tuesday 6th
- Wednesday - Going back in the water.

I was quoted:
16 hrs @ $85 for prep for bottom paint + apply bottom paint ( $1,360 )
20 hrs @ $85 for cleaning and buffing the topsides. ( $1,700 )
16 hrs @ $85 for "smile" prep and caulking and fiberglass  ( $1,360 )
4 hrs  @ $95 for fill and fiberglass crack + Re-torque keel bolts ( $380 )

Sub Total $4,800

Materials:
Bottom Paint $560
Sandpaper/Tape/Rollers $75
Buffing Pad/Compound $100
Discs/Caulking/Fiberglass and resin $250
Haul Out $374

Grand Total $6,259

Now, in all honesty, this is only the estimate! So far as I stated above I have seen 11 hr of Labor and as you can see in the quote I received Labor was estimated as a total of 56 hrs.

Including tomorrow, they have 3 full days left to fulfill the remaining 45 hrs...
Now if they do not work 45 man hours in the next 3 days and the mgr would like to stick with the same amount on his estimate on my bill there will be a discussion! 

Because so far what I am getting from him is a nice, friendly attitude telling me that I shouldn't worry, my bill will NOT be more than what his estimation was... Like if it was a favor to me...
My beef is; How could it be ?

If you estimate the labor for 56 hrs and then by the time you finish the job if it was only 36 hrs of labor has been used then my final bill should reflect that 20 hours of discrepancy into my advantage and I should pay $1,700 less than what it was estimated.

The main reason I am saying this because 90% of the job already has been done! Bottom is ready to be painted! Top side cleaning and buffing needs maybe 3-4 more hrs of labor. So in my estimation at the most 10 more hours of labor worth of work left. Let's be generous and say 15 more hrs. or even 19 hrs. That will bring me to 30 hrs of labor... Not 56 hrs... Sounds like someone deserves $2,210 deduction... :)

To me that's the fair solution. But as I said, he keep assuring me that my bill will be exactly what he estimated and not more...
Let's see what will be the outcome...
In any case it will be interesting! 

[KWKloeber]

2 things,

Either (1) the hrs estimate fully covers down time so his yard rate looks better, or (2) the $85 is the actual cover-my-cost/profit rate, and then he doesn't know how to quote a job.  56 hrs for that work is ridiculous (unless the bottom and topsides are way beyond belief.) 

Just the smile work itself  - a full 2-1/2 days to fix the smile (remember painting is additional) is, to me, unbelievable.  Maybe 2-1/2 days counting 4 hrs per day cell phone chit chatting and flirting with the store clerk.  LOL.

Barn door, but I wouldn't have approved it -- I'd have had a serious discussion beforehand about the est'd hours, and agreed on a reasonable number, with the proviso that "we talk" if something goes haywire that needs more effort.

-k

[Stu Jackson]

Jim,

I was quoted an hour to replace a macerator pump.  As you know, they are in the most accessible place on our boats.  So, I figured maybe two hours.

When they charged me 6 1/2 hours I got really annoyed.  At $75 an hour that's almost $500.  And I gave them the new pump!

A week later I went in and said, "Hi, I'm going to give you an opportunity to correct your invoice."

After sitting through a half hour of invective and dumbass excuses from the yard owner, totally unprovoked by anything I'd said, he finally relented and reduced the bill to two hours of time.  Actually, he just signed the check.  His office assistant, who I'd talked to during the week explaining my "issue," actually cut the check and he signed it without looking at it!

I wrote it up on Yelp.  It's no longer there since I don't do a lot of Yelp and they removed it after a year or so.

I NEVER, EVER did ANY more work for any of my  clients than what I'd agreed to do without getting their written approval.

His parting shot to me: "You're banned from this boatyard.  I'll never let you in here again!"  This after 16 years of using them regularly.  I said, "Thanks," walked out, used another boatyard the following year.  I still had to "help" the project manager at the second boatyard on my next issue, but persuasion I've found is a lot better approach than an argumentative one.

And private work is no different than the military.  Remember those $700 ashtrays?  C'mon, high horse about military is just plain wrong.

Jim, use all those cool things you learned from your days as a captain.  Your job is NOT to manage the yard workers, your job is to be a smart customer and interface with the assigned manager.

Glad you're here and feel free to vent anytime.  That's what we're here for.