Upwind Pointing

Miles Henderson · September 01, 2007, 05:13:19 PM

Last year I purchased a 1992 C34 (tall mast, fin keel rig) and this winter
converted it to a racer (i.e., capable of flying a symmetrical spinnaker). I am fairly disheartened by my boat's ability to point upwind. I find my taking angels are 100 degrees, at best. I have older, original equipment sails.

I would really appreciate advice from anyone that has purchased racing sails and if this change makes a significant difference in the boat's ability to point upwind.

I thank you for any advice you can share with me.

Regards,
Miles Henderson
Owner of Kumatage
Sheboygan, Wisconsin

Ted Pounds · September 01, 2007, 05:39:32 PM

If you have the original sails

you are WAAAAYYYY overdue for new ones. That'll make a huge difference. Also check rig tension as it's usually too loose, Also mast rake can have an effect. If you don't have them you should get the genoa lead adjusting system from Garhaur. You should find a sailmaker who will go out with you and give you some pointers and measure the boat for a new set of sails.
Beyond that you should have VC-17 on the bottom and a folding/feathering prop. you should end up with a 153 PHRF for racing on Lake Michigan. Good luck racing when you get her tricked out.

Miles Henderson · September 02, 2007, 07:46:46 AM

Quote from: hendem on September 01, 2007, 05:13:19 PM
Last year I purchased a 1992 C34 (tall mast, fin keel rig) and this winter
converted it to a racer (i.e., capable of flying a symmetrical spinnaker). I am fairly disheartened by my boat's ability to point upwind. I find my taking angels are 100 degrees, at best. I have older, original equipment sails.

I would really appreciate advice from anyone that has purchased racing sails and if this change makes a significant difference in the boat's ability to point upwind.

I thank you for any advice you can share with me.

Regards,
Miles Henderson
Owner of Kumatage
Sheboygan, Wisconsin

Quote from: Ted Pounds on September 01, 2007, 05:39:32 PM
If you have the original sails you are WAAAAYYYY overdue for new ones. That'll make a huge difference. Also check rig tension as it's usually too loose, Also mast rake can have an effect. If you don't have them you should get the genoa lead adjusting system from Garhaur. You should find a sailmaker who will go out with you and give you some pointers and measure the boat for a new set of sails.
Beyond that you should have VC-17 on the bottom and a folding/feathering prop. you should end up with a 153 PHRF for racing on Lake Michigan. Good luck racing when you get her tricked out.

Thanks for your comment about the original sails

. I would like to get a set of racing sails if I can get comfort that it will make the boat competitive (i.e., enable the boat to point and track at 45 degrees to true wind, or generate tacking tracks at 90 degrees or better). Do you have any insight into your boat's tacking angles?

Thanks, Miles H

rirvine · September 02, 2007, 09:13:47 AM

On the website http://www.flickr.com/photos/crews_nest/, you will see tracks recorded in real time from Crew's Nest racing on San Francisco Bay. When looking at the tacking angles, they can be distorted by the tidal current that flow in the Bay - but it can tack through 90 degrees or less. Still a C34 is no where near the highest pointing boat in the world.

Stu Jackson · September 02, 2007, 07:05:38 PM

Lots of it depends on where you sail and what winds you generally sail in. Lighter winds require a completely different sail than normally heavy winds. You NEED to talk with LOCAL sail makers who KNOW your area and you boat. After years of reading this and other forums, the consensus is that lower price (and lower happiness) occurs with warehouse sails, and the best results come from local sail makers OR people (skippers) who KNOW their stuff and may be able to order knowledgeably. Ray is right, there's no way cur boats are going to keep up with J-105s and other boats (the list is too long.) Enjoy what you have and buy new sails wisely.

Ron Hill · September 03, 2007, 06:30:41 PM

Miles : Install a back stay adjuster and you'll gain 5 - 10 degress pointimg. Look in projects for my design.

Stu Jackson · September 04, 2007, 10:54:51 AM

Backstay adjusters were a topic in the August 2007 Mainsheet Tech Notes very well written by Mike Vaccaro, our Technical Editor. Using the Knowledgebase would find other references, as would a search on this board.

Kyle Ewing · September 04, 2007, 12:38:48 PM

Miles,

For my 1990 Tall rig/fin keel with original main and 3 year old 155 genoa I'm lucky to get 100 degrees in light air and closer to 95 in moderate air. I find halyard, cunningham, and outhaul tension help the main. Halyard tension, genoa track setting, and backstay tension help the genoa. A new main is on my list but, like you, I don't want to spend the money and be disappointed that it doesn't help pointing.

Kyle

Stu Jackson · September 04, 2007, 05:29:02 PM

Kyle had earlier posted this: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2275.0

A search on pointing would most likely bring up some more threads (like 2 pages of them).

tonywright · September 05, 2007, 01:55:06 PM

Suggest that you check the tension on all your standing rigging first. Most folks have the shrouds and backstay way too loose. You'd be surprised at how balanced this makes the rig. One possible clue: do you have to fight with the wheel to go upwind, or is it fairly well balanced?

Tony

joe · September 06, 2007, 10:30:58 AM

i have a friend with C30. his backstay adjuster is positioned so that is uncomfortable when you sit at the helm and steer. is it the same with the C34?

Rick Johnson · September 06, 2007, 01:11:25 PM

I see that Loos makes a cheaper gauge (model 90 & 91) and the nicer PT series. Will the cheaper gauge work well enough or should I put a crowbar in my wallet and buy the more expensive one???

Stu Jackson · September 06, 2007, 03:14:14 PM

Joe, you simply need to carefully plan y0ur installation so that doesn't happen. We shortened our backstay before the split and have no trouble. Do a search on backstay adjusters and there are some pictures on the board here. Also a writeup in the August 2007 Masinsheet, also lots in the Knowledgebase.

Ron Hill · September 06, 2007, 06:47:46 PM

Rick : The numbers from any Loos gage are NOT absolute!! They are relative and one side / for and aft should match each other - is the most important!!

Rick Johnson · September 06, 2007, 07:24:11 PM

Thanks Ron. I tried to check the rake of the mast on Monday but the cove was not calm enough to get a good reading. Hopefully, if I get there early this weekend I can check the rake without the boat pitching. I had just been talking with my slip neighbor about how close (or not) I can sail to the wind, so this discussion came at the perfect time. My guess from Monday is that there is currently almost no rake to the mast. I'm also sure the backstay is too slack...

Thanks for more timely information.