Shaft replacement / prop removal

foursailing · December 18, 2006, 03:20:58 PM

I was thinking of replacing my original shaft (believe it's bronze) with a stainless / aqualoy 22 shaft as part of my packless shaft seal installation. Can some one confirm that the shaft can be replaced without dropping the rudder? Also, any trick for removing the prop? I guess I could pay the yard to do it (probably a $100 bucks), but since i was replacing the shaft anyway, I was just thinking of cutting the shaft by the prop then press it out with a vice.

Thanks!

Bill

sedelange · December 18, 2006, 04:03:54 PM

You might want to consider cutting the shaft. I difficulty removing the prop and the drive flange. Since the engine was out on mine, I ended up removing the prop with a puller and sliding the shaft into the boat. The drive flange didn't want to come off even with a press.

Steve DeLange

Stu Jackson · December 18, 2006, 04:09:39 PM

Bill, see: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-ron-hill.html Scoll down, there's a picture that shows the shaft passing by the rudder. Confirmation unless Photoshop was used.

rirvine · December 18, 2006, 04:27:30 PM

To remove the old shaft and prop, I would suggest that you cut the shaft to make it all easier. Once you have them out inspect the hub of the prop for electrolytic action with the shaft – if it is pinkish that is bad news.

I am told that you can get the new shaft in without taking the rubber off. When I replaced the shaft and prop, they took the rubber off.

While you are doing all this work, replace your prop with a folding or feathering prop as well.

Good luck, Ray

Ron Hill · December 18, 2006, 06:32:06 PM

Bill : There have been quite a number of us that pulled the shaft past the rudder. They are written in the Mainsheet tech notes, posts on this message board and in Projects. The info is there for the reading.
To remove the prop invest in a Harbor Freight 6 " 3 prong gear puller. It will set you back about $7.00 - - have no idea what the yard will charge, but it'll be closer to $50++!!
Read the info and save yourself many $$$$. A thought.

Bob K · December 19, 2006, 04:00:15 AM

Bill,
I am wondering what your reasons are for wanting to change to a stainless shaft. My bronze shaft is in my garage, and other than a bit of wear by the packing gland, is OK. I can either reinstall it, or buy a new stainless one. Right now I am opting to save the $$, but am open to suggestions. Is there less vibration with the stainles type? And yes, I was able to work the shaft past the rudder without too much trouble. Need to grease the shaft so it doesn't hang up in the cutless. It trashed the cutless rubber, but that needed replacing anyway. The bronze shaft can be pulled to the side to clear the rudder - I am unsure if same can be done with a stainless shaft which I assume is less flexible. The hardest part was removing the flange - a dog job. There are posts out there whiich describe how it can be done with no hammering. The prop is relatively easy to remove with a puller like Ron described. Just need to clean all the crud off the threads before trying to remove the prop nut.
Bob

foursailing · December 19, 2006, 04:58:46 PM

Ron - Just ordered my gear puller from harbor freight - looks like that will do the trick. BTW - the puller is now $13 - still a bargain if it does the trick! I will also take a look through the projects and tech notes (if I can remember my PWD!)

Bob - I've already removed the coupling so hopefully once I get the gear puller the prop will be a piece of cake!

As far as replacing the the bronze with stainless, I'm also still up in the air with that. I recently did that with my old pearson and it seamed to make a difference, thouhg that bronze shaft showed alot of wear. I'm assuming the stainless will be alot more durable.

To be honest, I'm thinking of replacing the cutlass and shaft - even though they might have a little more life in them - just because it's a lot of work to remove the coupling and align the engine (This way I know I won't have to touch it for a while).

Not sure if anyone else can shed some light on the bronze vs stainless shaft. BTW - who would you use to make the shaft?

Thanks,

Bill

Stu Jackson · December 19, 2006, 05:42:00 PM

Bill

email me at mraquaq@aol.com for your password.

Shedding light on the bronze vs. stainless was covered in tech Notes, the index to which is posted here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=3096.0

Bob K · December 20, 2006, 04:05:49 AM

Bill,
I did not know of a local supplier for a stainless shaft, so I did an internet search, and found many, I called two, and they both recommended AQ19 material over the more expensive AQ22 for a sailboat application. Companies were General Propellor, $230 +$18 shipping, and Deep Blue, $220 + $20 shipping. Both quotes for a 5' shaft (5" is not the exact length - used only for pricing).

If anybody knows where the old Tech note dealing with stainlesss vs bronze shaft material is, please point me to the issue and date - I have most of the notes in hard copy. I was unable to find it when searching the index yesterday. Thanks,
Bob

Jon Schneider · December 20, 2006, 02:05:38 PM

I'm in the process of categorizing all of the techn notes into about 23 subject categories. I did a search through my little database, and couldn't find any reference to the bronze vs ss shaft issue, so I don't think it was a C34 Tech Notes article. You might check the C36 and C30 sites and search their Tech Notes. And of course there are a ton of messages on this board about shafts in general, so it would be worth a more detailed search on the subject.

Ron Hill · December 20, 2006, 03:24:32 PM

Jon : You are correct as the bronze vrs stainless shaft is NOT in our web site or the Mainsheet tech notes.

I changed as my shaft as it was scored inside (got behing a Tug on the shallow ICW) the cutless bearing and I wanted to change to a harder metal shaft with my higher # of engine hours.
In the tech notes I've recommended that all owners disconnect the coupling (shove it aft 4 inches) and inspect the shaft every 5/10 years -- you might be surprised what you find!!

tonywright · December 21, 2006, 07:24:42 AM

On my newly acquired 2003 with only 40+ hours on the engine, a surprise discovery at survey time was a completely worn cutless bearing. See the picture below. Most or all of the rubber is gone, and I measure a 1/8 gap at the top. Daylight visible through it. The theory from the survey was bad misalignment, which seems unlikely to have caused this damage so quickly, without other more serious damage occurring.

My theory is that whoever painted antifouling (second picture) over the whole shaft, propeller and strut probably caused the channels in the rubber to be blocked. This caused lack of lubrication, quickly destroying the rubber in the bearing. Any thoughts on this? I have never seen anyone coat a shaft and propeller before. Nor has anyone else I have spoken to.

Since it is worn down the the metal, the shaft is most likely scored as well, requiring not only a new bearing, but a new shaft as well. Catalina says that they are supplying only stainless shafts now, and so we have ordered one. I believe they quoted about $220. New bearing is coming at the same time.

Footloose · December 21, 2006, 07:36:27 AM

Tony,

I believe you should get that bottom paint off of the skeg ASAP. The copper that is present in most bottom paints will set up corrosion due to dissimilar metals. Bronze is an alloy.

I have been wondering about the use of a stainless shaft with a bronze prop. Are problems encountered with this set up? Again, we have dissimilar metals.

tonywright · December 21, 2006, 07:48:51 AM

Good point Dave

Any pointers on best method to remove it from the skeg? I want to remove it from the propellor also, although I have bought a 3 blade Jprop to replace it.

I also need to remove it from the ST60 depth sensor. Any ideas on best method here also?

Tony

Ron Hill · December 21, 2006, 03:06:32 PM

Tony : I'm not to sure what Dave is talking "taking the paint off the skag ASAP". I believe he's talking about the STRUT not the skag. A new cutless bearing will have the rubber isolating the metal in the shaft from the metal in the strut - so I'm not too sure why there should be any concern!! I've had my strut painted with copper bottom paint for 19 seasons and there is NO deterioration.

I've always used "transducer paint" on the face of the depth and props of the speed transducers. Of late I've sprayed them with the the "Outdrive anti fouling" paint which has worked well.

You do want the "slots" in the cutless to be free (for and aft), so as you said water can freely flow thur then and keep the bearing cooled and lubricated. When the boat is layed up for the winter on the hard, I always squirt some silicone in those slots (turning the shaft) to keep the rubber from drying out!!

Pulling the shaft, cutting & collapsing the cutless, is a straight forward task. Then replace with the new shaft and slide in the new cutless (don't forget to grease the inside of the strut) and replace the set screws.
Realign the engine/shaft after the boat has been in the water (with the rig tuned) for 48 hrs. You should be good to Go this next season!!