Shaft replacement / prop removal

[tonywright]

Great comments and observations Ron. Thanks

[David Sanner]

Good ideas... info.    One thing about painting the strut, I don't think you want paint on the
strut where the zinc touches it.

[Steve Sayian]

Thanks for the tip on Harbor Freight for the gear puller.  Just ordered the 3 piece 3-jaw set of 3, 4, and 6 inch pullers for $9.99!

Will try and 'sneak' the shaft by the rudder when the pullers arrive.

Having the bottom 'soda blasted' this week to get off multiple layers of ablative paint.  Going to re-barrier coat and apply hard paint in the spring.

[Ron Hill]

Steve : You may already plan on doing this, but let me repeat a previous post again. 
When you re do the bottom use different colors.  If the barrier coat is gray, then make the hard bottom paint red and then your final ablative coat Blue - as an example.   Use contrasting colors so when you see a color you know where your are (with regard to the bottom). 
My hard bottom paint is blue and my ablative is red.  So when I see blue it's time to repaint!!  If I see white (and not too deep) I'm at the outer barrier coat.  I have 2 other barrier coats black and red until I get to the gel coat.
A thought.   

[Steve Sayian]

Ron,

Yup, that's the plan to use different colors.

I'm going to use Petit Trinidad blue for the base coat and red for the top coat.  The red has a bit more CuO in it and that will help with the critter-control.  Had good luck with that paint on my C-30 after I stripped that bottom.

Thanks,
Steve

[Steve Sayian]

Hi Ron,

Got my gear puller set from Harbor Freight today and the 6" puller worked like a champ!
Had the prop off in less than 2 minutes.

Problem is that the MKII I have (1999, Wing) won't allow the shaft to be squeaked by the rudder.  I looked at your pictures and tried same.  No-go.  The shaft is centered right on the rudder and the rudder is about 3" thick. Not enough clearance to get shaft by the rudder, even if I moved the rudder in either direction.  Didn't want to force the shaft as that would have put too much pressure on the skeg and cutlass bearing.
Looks like I'll have to resort to Plan B and drop the rudder!  Positive note is that I'll be able to do an inspection/replacement of any worn parts as well as take a good look at the rudder tube and bearings.
Thanks for the tip and the picture.

BTW, got a 'custom made' 4 1/2 " deep 1 1/8 inch socket for the keel bolts from a friend for a case of 'Bud'.

Thanks to everyone for the help on this!
Steve

[Ron Hill]

Steve : Look at over your steering gear closely.  If you've ever thought of a tiller arm auto pilot, now's the time to install it (with the rudder down). 
You got a great "price" on that deep well socket for the keel nuts!!!!  Hope You don't have any more surprises!   

[foursailing]

Steve,

I also I have a 1999 wing keel (#1446) and I was able to pull the shaft.  As I was told, the key is to apply a fair amount of grease on the shaft.  I first tried with WD40 and it didn't budge.  Once I applied the grease it came right out.  I then removed the cutlass which was alot tougher.

I wound up purchasing a new aqualoy 19 shaft for $185 + an additional $30 to refit to coupling. (http://www.mechanicalsystemssupport.com/boatshafts.html)

My question now is should I try to install the new stainless shaft first, then install the cutlass, or install the cutlass first - either case I will use plenty of grease. 

Thanks,

Bill

[Jon Schneider]

Maybe this thread as captured in the FAQs will help: http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/faq-1-cutless-bearing.html

[Ron Hill]

Bill : You MUST install the shaft first, then install the new cutless bearing.  Other way around and you will NOT get the shaft back in!!
Guys : I pulled my shaft past the rudder and I know of Many Many others that have also done just that. 
However, give Steve some slack!!  If he says it can't happen, then on his boat believe him that he can't do it!!  Shine up the shaft and grease it or not - he says it can't be done.  Believe him.   

[Steve Sayian]

Hi Guys,

I seem to have missed one small detail and that is trying to get the shaft out with the cutlass bearing still in the skeg.

My assumption (and we know what means) was that the shaft would slide past the rudder (as in Ron's photo) with the cutlass still in.  Couldn't figure out how Ron did it, but thought there must be enough of a difference between the MKIs and IIs to allow it on the MKIs.  WRONG!
Now I get the picture and see that with the bearing in, it won't make it.

Live and learn.

[Ron Hill]

Steve : We are "beating a dead horse to death".   
My shaft came out (after it was shined up and greased) past the rudder with the old cutless in place!  Then I took a hack saw made a cut thru the brass bearing and collapsed the bearing for removal.   The new shaft MUST be inserted and then press in the new Cutless bearing.  If you press in the new bearing first, I doubt if you could ever get the shaft back in(past the rudder). 

It just occurred to me that if you don't have the "sloppy movement" between your shaft and the Cutless (which indicates that the bearing needs replacement), you may not be able to slide the shaft by the rudder !!

I take you at your word - that you can't do it on your boat.  If so drop the rudder as you have planned.   

[Roc]

Steve,
Seems to me it would be easier to remove the cutless bearing, instead of dropping the rudder, to get your shaft out.  I had my shaft replaced several years ago and the yard replaced it by removing the bearing.  They didn't have to drop the rudder.

[Rocco]

I replaced the prop shaft on Geneva (97 MKII) last season and was not able to slide the new shaft in past the rudder; even with the cutlass bearing removed it was not even close, the alignment with my rudder is spot on.  We purchased her the season before and the cutlass had some wear; the shaft coupling was also in very bad shape, I don't believe it was ever maintained with any type of corrosion inhibitor and the key bolts were completely siezed making shaft removal impossible.  All this added up to a decison to replace the cutlass bearing, shaft, coupling and install a PSS shaft seal while I was at it.  Removal of the shaft was easy enough using a hack saw; a 6" wheel puller made quick work of removing the prop.  The cutlass bearing refused to budge using a homemade tool to press it out, so I resorted to carefully cutting through the casing and folding it inward to remove it.

I had the prop inspected and balanced along with an aquamet 22 shaft and 2" split coupling (a standard coupling is too long to accomodate the PSS).  After confirming there was no way to get the new shaft past the rudder, even with the cutlass bearing removed, I dug a hole and dropped my rudder.  The radial steering quadrant had suffered serious dissimilar metal corrosion with all of the SS mounting bolts and steering cable adjustment eyes (I had to snap one of the four quadrant mounting bolts to get it off) so I decided to overhaul the steering while I was at it.  Since I'm close to Edson, I was able to drive up with my old quadrant and they machined an exact replacement for me while I waited (those guys are great!).  The placement of the quadrant through-bolt hole is critical because the steering cables on the MKII are so close to the top of the aft water tank, if the new quadrant caused the cable to drop 3/16" I'd be rubbing against the tank; the geometry on the cables is already off in the opposite direction so the quadrant could not go any higher or the cables would be too far out of alignment.  Since I had everything apart I also decided to pick up new steering cables (the most expensive seven words in boat maintenance are - might as well while you're at it).

Installing the new cutlass bearing was easy using some nuts/washers and a piece of 1/2" threaded rod (I heated the strut with boiling water and chilled the cutlass bearing in ice).  Installation of the PSS is very tight on the MKII due to the extra length on the M35.  The shaft must be inserted through the PSS bellows, carbon seal, SS sealing ring(w/seals) and into the shaft coupling all at the same time; carefully sliding the shaft seal components down bit by bit while working the shaft into the coupling (the split coupling defintely helps here).  When installed there is only 1 1/8" of clearance between the PSS SS sealing ring and the back of the shaft coupling.  After much deliberation, I decided the best place to run the PSS vent hose was just in front of the muffler through the fiberglass bulkhead at the back of the muffler and up into the port lazarette.  It's very well protected in these locations and was the shortest possbile run.  I epoxied a mounting block to the forward bulkhead of the lazarette and clamped the vent hose there where it is well protected, out of the way, and well above the waterline.

While the rudder was out, I took the oportunity to strip off all bottom paint, inspect it, and apply a barrier coating.  With the new shaft in, reinstalling the rudder was very straight forward but is defintely a two man job (it took longer to redig the hole for clearance than to get the rudder in).  The new quadrant installed easily; the new cables took a bit more time since the Pedestal needed to be disasembled; but at least I could inspect and clean all of my linkages, etc.  Adjustment of the cables was straightforward, but I did go back after a few days in the water and re-adjust to tighten the slack created by the cables working in a bit as they come over the quadrant toward the adjustment eyes.

Sorry for such a long post, but I haven't seen anything on MKII shaft seal installations and thought I would throw that in as well.

Regards,
Rocco