Auto Pilot, Navigation, Instruments and Software Integration

[Dave Spencer]

Raymond,
I've attached a .pdf file showing a schematic of the setup I installed in 2020.  It might be helpful to start sketching out a schematic.  A schematic is very useful to help you plan and visualize a properly integrated system to meet your needs. (and budget!)

My thoughts on your post from earlier today:

1.  The EV-100 system is excellent.  I previously has a Raymarine SPX autopilot that didn't work well and then failed completely.  I debated moving away from Raymarine since they hadn't earned my repeat business but reports that the EV-1 sensor core was a significant improvement and the ubiquity of Raymarine at chandleries that I frequent made me give it a try.  It is excellent for my purposes.  I didn't even change the ST4000 Mk2 Wheel Drive from my old Raymarine system. (as far as I know the new one that came with the EV-100 system kit is identical to the one that was already installed... so I now have a spare wheel drive).  I don't have a rudder position sensor.  Others have reported it makes a difference but I'm OK without it.  It can be added later if necessary.
The p70s display and controller for the EV-100 autopilot is good but, as Alex said, it only gives very basic wind information if you have wind input.  It does allow you to "sail by the wind" steering the boat to a given wind angle.  I rarely use that function.  Like Jim H, I tend to use the autopilot to hold a heading or, in some cases, go to a waypoint.  Although I have the capability, I don't need and I've never had my EV-100 follow a route except to test it to see how / if it worked. 

2.  I have the wired Raymarine short arm wind transducer with 30m of cable.  It connects to the ITC-5 which converts legacy speed, depth and wind input to the STng Network (aka NMEA 2000) allowing the data to be used anywhere on the STng network including the EV-100 autopilot.  I have no knowledge of wireless or Wi-Fi transducers but have heard some grumbling that the older wireless TackTick systems could be unreliable.  Maybe true, maybe not. I didn't consider them when I was updating my system.  If you get an i70s display, you don't need a dedicated wind display although you might prefer it.  I can show wind graphically on my i70s display, my ST60+ legacy display and on my chartplotter. 

3.  As I said earlier, I have no knowledge of Wi-Fi marine instruments.  It sounds like others have successfully integrated their iPad into their instrument system.  If you have the ITC-5 converter, your legacy depth and speed data will be on the STng network and available for any compatible instrument to display.  I use the i70s which is expensive but excellent.  Depth is of prime importance to me and I can display it on the i70s, my legacy ST50+ and my chartplotter.

I'm very happy with my system.  It suits my needs cruising Georgian Bay very well.  I may upgrade my Element chartplotter to an Axiom at some point but other than that, I wouldn't change anything.  Having said that, in my opinion, a B&G system like Noah has is the gold standard.  It is expensive and not as widely available as Raymarine or Garmin in my part of the world but the user interface and the sailing software on B&G plotters is excellent. 

Good luck with your project and keep asking questions.

[tvorgitch]

My ST4000+ appeared to be inoperable when I purchased my boat in 2021 as it only displayed "No Data." I was so eager to get it working as I had a 12 hour sail/motor to my home port that I actually purchased a replacement on Ebay. It had the exact same error. After some time, I discovered that it would function properly if disconnected from the SeaTalk network. Without that connection I could not follow a route or hold to the wind, but at least I could steer to a heading. Of course, 2 hours into the sail, the autohelm belt broke and we had to manually steer anyway.

I did end up replacing the LCD on the ST4000+, but it's been functioning fine and I resold my backup on Ebay. Turns out my problem was a shorted GPS wire so the SeaTalk network was not getting GPS data.

Before you make any decision, isolate the ST4000+ and let me know what the display says. I have spend hours debugging my issues and I may be able to help.

[Kyle Ewing]

Raymond,

I'm very happy with my Evolution wheel pilot, i70s wind/speed/depth combo and Garmin 73sv Echomap chartplotter.  I also have an EmTrak B953 AIS.  My setup is similar to Dave's.  You can see pics at https://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,11425.msg92088.html#msg92088.  It lets me see the instruments from anywhere in the cockpit.

I use a Yacht Devices Wifi gateway (https://www.yachtd.com/products/wifi_gateway.html) to get data to devices including a dedicated device at nav table (Raspberry pi based with 10" display) and phone.  I haven't figured out how to get the EV100 to take waypoints from a laptop, but it takes waypoints from the Garmin.

If thinking about wireless vs. wired wind instrument to simplify installation, rigger was able to install my wind instrument with the mast up.  It took him and helper less than an hour. 

Now's the time to be planning as you can shop over the winter.  You can get i70s system pack (check BOE Marine) and EV100 Evolution Wheelpilot (Defender) today for around $2500 and you might save $200-$300 if you catch the right sales.

[RaymondP]

As the originator of this message, wanted to reiterate my thanks for the great input on this somewhat complex question.  Here is where I am....

Seems I can't go wrong by starting with the purchase of an EV-100 autopilot kit.  Top of my Christmas list    Only down side I see is that some of my legacy components could still be utilized if working, but given their age and the good feedback I have received on this system, thinking it makes sense to proceed.  I am also finding there are considerable savings in buying a bundled package vs. piecemealing the components together.  For the next stage may wait until the boat returns to the water as no doubt other things will come up as a priority once the 2024 sailing season is underway.  Also have had hints from others that an ipad/navionics may be coming my way so at least I will know where I am when off shore!! 

My next thought is to address the wind monitoring solution.  Going back and forth on wired/wireless, but leaning towards a wireless solution as this seems to make sense in terms of connectivity, both with a wireless wind transducer on the mast, and to connect the ipad Navionics with the autopilot (still unresolved).  Found a cost effective kit that includes three items, the Raymarine wireless gateway, the wireless wind transducer for the masthead, and a portable dongle that will provide any data available on the network, in this case wind (only) as my speedo and depth gauge are legacy gear and may not connect until I network them (how TBD??).

As you can see I am being cautious, taking this in stages as I learn more about available solutions.  Objective is that whatever I implement is extendable and can be integrated into my ultimate system. Interestingly, Raymarine stressed a limit of 50 feet for the height of the mast to be sure of a robust connection.  I believe my tall rig is 47 feet, so should be OK.  To be safe they suggested buying a Tack Tic (another new item not familiar with)  installed on the mast to address reliability of the wireless signal, should I have problems.  This would also better serve the mobile data dongle as I move around the boat.

With sailing short/single handed, very much hope to have a solution to keep the boat into the wind while am raising the sails, so continuing to explore and learn.  Please feel free to comment on my path of action, particularly if you have experience in any of these components.

For info. in my travels and in the interest of sharing useful info with others I learned that Raymarine will no longer support Navionics since they have partnered with competitor Garman.  Not sure if this presents an immediate or future problem, but thought I would share anyway.

Thanks again.  And apologies for the long post!

[Noah]

I would suggest wired wind is better and more reliable if done correctly. Especially if you are in a geographic area where you unstep the mast for the winter. Also not sure about your info that Navionics will be unsupported by Garmin. Garmin now owns Navionics. It is possible they may kill it but most likely I guess they will keep it and/or rebrand it as Garmin?

[RaymondP]

Think you misread my message.  No worries I do it all the time.  It is Raymarine that may not support Navionics.  You are correct in that Garmin is in partnership with Navionics.  All over their chart plotter and other product packaging in the store.

[Noah]

Yes I did misread your post! Oops! Still, I am surprised that Raymarine would not support Navionics charts. I have B&G stuff myself, and they own C-Map, but still "allow" Navionics Charts to be used. Who knows that may change in the future too?

[waughoo]

I have a raymarine plotter and run Navionics charts.  That said, my gear is not brand new so the future might be different.

I'll throw another vote in for wired wind.  I am not a fan of wireless for instruments.  It does indeed solve a problem, but from what I have heard, the stability is not fantastic.  Since you are hoping to keep your legacy instruments and transducers, an itc-5 is likely going to be part of your kit.  That has the wind connection built in.  I would seriously consider going wired.

[ewengstrom]

I wanted to add wind instruments to my current B&G Zeus 7 chart plotter. When at the boat show in Annapolis this past October I took the opportunity to discuss this with the folks manning the B&G booth. Although I pulled the mast this year for much needed upgrading and repair I was still on the fence with wired/wireless. When I mentioned this to the B&G rep he strongly hinted that wired would be the way to go, and that's what I ordered.
On a side note, a fellow in the slip next to me with an identical boat (1988 C34 SR/WK) added wireless wind to his Zeus 7 and experienced all kinds of difficulty getting it to work, in fact he sold the boat before he ever got it working correctly. The new owners noodled around with it and got it working but the boat has been sold again and is now gone so I can't speak to its effectiveness over time.

[KeelsonGraham]

Navionics runs just fine on my latest gen Axiom Pro.

[Phil Spicer]

 I also looked at a wind instrument at the Annapolis Show this year. Wife said we should look at getting new instruments and she would like to add a wind instrument. As I shopped I got the same reaction from sales. "Should I go wireless" The answer was, ahhhhh...
well.....ahhhh. Then they said for our boat the recommendation was to go wired, and I did.
After 35 years the old knot and depth are still working fine, but when the wife says get new, who can argue with that. Did a lot of damage at the show this year, instruments, head, jib, dodger, not to mention the transmission work. Christmas came early.
I don't have any experience with a wind instrument or wireless connection. This is just my experience this fall.
      Phil
   

[KeelsonGraham]

I've got no experience of wifi wind instruments, but I do have a wifi connection to my Quantum radar. It works just fine - except when the boom is dead central.

[Ron Hill]

Phil : I surely hope that the reliability of the wireless wind instruments had increased??  A few years ago I had a dock mate that was spending alot of time at the top of the mast reinstalling or taking down to ship back - his wireless wind instrument!!

I would think that now with MANY things going Blue Tooth that things have changed for the better ??

A thought

[RaymondP]

Revisiting this series of posts as the originator.  Thought I would provide an update.  I have now received a new complete autopilot system, the Raymarine Ev-100 Evolution Wheel(T10752) to replace my old inoperative system.  Seems like more work to fix/upgrade the old system, after much reading.  I will also benefit from the latest guidance/compass technology incorporated in the new system.

Let the fun and games begin....So visited the boat yesterday, as temperature was above 50 degrees where the boat is parked on the hard.  Began deconstructing the old components/wiring.  The new NMEA SeaTalk NG wiring is entirely different so probably won't be utilizing anything from the original install back in 86, when the boat was built.

Successfully removed the old control unit mounted to the right (starboard) of the wheel, and trying to trace the three sets of wires to understand how the old system was set up.  Ran out of time after dismantling multiple panels in the aft cabin and elsewhere, but try as I may I have been unable to locate the ACU (gray box) or the compass (white puck).  Assume there are two units as with the new system, so can anyone confirm and advise potential locations to minimize the wild goose chase?

Been reading up a lot on the criticality of the locations, as well as planning ahead for the wiring.  (Dave Spencer, big thank you for sharing the detailed diagram of the install in a previous post above - very helpful). 

Hoping I don't need the ITC-5 converter to operate the compass.  If I understand correctly this should share info. directly through the SeaTalk NG backbone once connected. 

Will get back to the boat this weekend, so will share progress as available.  Must say the new components look like quality gear.  Exciting times!!
 

[Dave Spencer]

Raymond,
Older autopilots didn't have a separate ACU.  When I removed my old Autohelm system, there was only the display (that evidently had some brains built into it), the wheel drive and the compass.  The compass could be located almost anywhere (older Raymarine/ Autohelm compass "pucks" were grey or black, not the nice shiny white like the EV100 system).  The best place for it is approx midships near the centre of rotation for the boat... i.e. low down near the base of the mast).  But some mounted them in lockers or almost anywhere else that was convenient.  Trace the wires and you'll find it.
Good luck.