Request for assistance with solenoid relay wiring

[ricowr]

During the re-installation of my HX (following a jolly-good, muriatic acid day spa), I managed to disconnect all but the ground wire from my selinoid relay.   The before and and after photos are below.  I believe the relay has the same pinout as shown in the diagram, also below.

The boat is a 1992 C34 Mk 1.5 with an M-25XP.

From the "Before" photo, it appears that the wires are attached to the relay as follows:
- Black - pin 85  (goes to ground bus bar)
- Red - pin 30 (goes to top, center of selinoid via ring terminal)
- White - pin 87 (goes to top of selinod, offset from center to the side, via quick connect (spade) terminal -- see photo below)

What isn't shown in the Before photo is the wire from the Start button on the cockpit.  It has an in-line fuse and I assume it is supposed to be connected to pin 86.  The wire is yellow with the red stripe and has a quick connect terminal.

It would be most appreciated if someone could verify that:
a) The wire from the Start button in the cockpit goes to pin 86, and
b) Pin 87a is not used in this application.

Thanks much!

[KWKloeber]

Posting the boat/engine info is of no help here.  That relay was not OEM on any Universal engine.  A PO installed it to overcome the fact that the "S" wire in the harness (from the Start Switch) is too light, rather than running a heavier wire!

In your case the "S" wire is used to energize the coil in the relay, which pulls the switch closed and energizes the Starter Solenoid.

The Coil is what's shown on the bottom of the relay body (terminals 85 / 86) that closes the Switch depicted on the top of the relay body (terminals 30 / 87.)

The short answer, after wanting you to understand what's going on, is "86."

What the PO has done is introduced an unnecessary component into the system and thus another failure point that will stop you dead if it fails.  You should trash it and run a yellow #10 "S" wire (yellow, run a red sharpie down it) to replace the OEM #16 gauge "S" wire.
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/wiki/7401

[Stu Jackson]

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What the PO has done is introduced an unnecessary component into the system and thus another failure point that will stop you dead if it fails.  You should trash it and run a yellow #10 "S" wire (yellow, run a red sharpie down it) to replace the OEM #16 gauge "S" wire.
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/wiki/7401

This is one of your OPTIONS (i.e., choices).

I installed a solenoid on my M25 about 25 years ago.  It's one of those big old clunky Ford metal cylindrical ones.  Still working; never had to use the backup one I have on board  .

I drew the wiring diagram at the end of Capt. Al's superb article and keep that on the boat, too.  So if the solenoid fails , I either replace it with the backup or just wire it out and go back to the way it was (until I do the replacement).

I don't know what the longevity of these newer solid state puppies are compared to my old banger, but they sure look just as easy to have a backup on board as well as a wiring diagram.

As you know, this solenoid turns the glow plug wire from the cockpit panel to the engine FROM a power wire TO a signal wire.

My wiring diagram is here:  https://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Faster%2C_More_Efficient_Glow_Plug_Heating_with_a_Solenoid

Once installed, run the GPs for only 10-12 seconds because they are 10+V and the voltage will be higher since the solenoid eliminates the long undersized wire run's voltage drop.  This has been written up here many times before, I think it's a very good thing to have.

[KWKloeber]

Once installed, run the GPs for only 10-12 seconds

Stu, it is not a preheat solenoid/relay.

Installing that relay was as stupid a "fix" as it would be to leave an ammeter in the panel and run heavy cable up and back to overcome the voltage loss.  No matter what the life of the relay is, it does not belong there rather than fixing the harness.

[KWKloeber]

And the PO obviously didn't know proper wiring methods, seeing how the cables were installed on the solenoid "B" terminal.

[ricowr]

Thank-you both, Ken and Stu for your helpful explanations of what I've found "under the hood."   This is really helpful.   I'm about to depart on a mutli-week cruise, so changing the "S" wire out beforehand isn't in the cards.  So for the short term, I'll wire up the relay as noted, purchase a spare relay and fuse to keep on hand, and then re-wire in the off-season.

This is my first boat and only had her for a few months, so I'm learning a lot... fast.  It is great to have people like experienced people like yourselves take the time to assist newbies such as me.  Thanks again.

[KWKloeber]

I'll wire up the relay as noted, purchase a spare relay and fuse to keep on hand, and then re-wire in the off-season.

This is my first boat and only had her for a few months, so I'm learning a lot... fast.  It is great to have people like experienced people like yourselves take the time to assist newbies such as me.  Thanks again.

You could repurpose the relay right there for the preheat as Stu describes.

When the time comes posting good pics of everything you have harness-wise we can sometimes spot an issue and/or provide nagging tips when upgrading!

Have a safe journey!

[Stu Jackson]

Once installed, run the GPs for only 10-12 seconds

Stu, it is not a preheat solenoid/relay.

Installing that relay was as stupid a "fix" as it would be to leave an ammeter in the panel and run heavy cable up and back to overcome the voltage loss.  No matter what the life of the relay is, it does not belong there rather than fixing the harness.

My harness was already "fixed," the ammeter was gone and replaced with a voltmeter sand the Gummy Bear trailer plugs were gone, too, when I bought my then 12 year old boat in 1998.

The wiring harness upgrade and the GP solenoid are, at least to me, two separate issues.  The harness should be done, as in it has not be done (although the boat will still work without it, but the reasons it's necessary are all in Gerry's article in the wiki).  The GP solenoid is optional and is independent from the harness Gummy Bear/ammeter issue.

What "is not a preheat solenoid/relay?"  Honest question, I don't understand what you're saying here, and I know you're not calling me stupid. 

[KWKloeber]

What "is not a preheat solenoid/relay?"  Honest question, I don't understand what you're saying here, and I know you're not calling me stupid. 

Hi Stu,

I just think you may have missed what I said in my post.  Your head is wrapped around GPs because it's "a relay."  Just forget about the GPs, it had nothing to do w/ them. 
This is all about the (yellow/red) "S" wire to the starter (see his pics.)

In your case the "S" wire is used to energize the coil in the relay, which pulls the switch closed and energizes the Starter Solenoid.

You should trash it and run a yellow #10 "S" wire (yellow, run a red sharpie down it) to replace the OEM #16 gauge "S" wire.
https://groups.io/g/Catalina30/wiki/7401

The PO (apparently) installed the relay because the OEM 16 ga "S" wire (and maybe the Gummy Bears? maybe low V on the panel feed wire?) caused low voltage at the Solenoid "S" terminal and the PO had starting issues.  So instead of simply running a new #10 "S" wire, he installed this convoluted system.

ipso, disconnect the relay and run a new, #10, "S" wire to eliminate the V loss!
That's why I compared -- using this system (to overcome V loss in the "S" wire) -- would be like running a heavy charge cable up to/back from the panel (to overcome V loss) instead of switching the Ammeter to a Voltmeter.

(unknown if he already has one or wants one, but he could reuse the relay install for the GPs (you know, that totally unnecessary GP mod ]

[Stu Jackson]

Hi Stu,

I just think you may have missed what I said in my post.  Your head is wrapped around GPs because it's "a relay."  Just forget about the GPs, it had nothing to do w/ them. 
This is all about the (yellow/red) "S" wire to the starter (see his pics.)

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Thx, Ken, I thought you were replying to my last post, not to the OP.  All clear now.

[KWKloeber]

Hi Stu,

I just think you may have missed what I said in my post.  Your head is wrapped around GPs because it's "a relay."  Just forget about the GPs, it had nothing to do w/ them. 
This is all about the (yellow/red) "S" wire to the starter (see his pics.)

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Thx, Ken, I thought you were replying to my last post, not to the OP.  All clear now.

Stu - YES, I WAS replying to your post which was all about the GP relay. 

I was not replying to the OP - he completely understood what I explained about the S wire.