Engine panel question

[Craig Illman]

Ken - What would you recommend for fuse hardware if one was going to upsize to 8 gauge from the starter to the panel? or even one sustained the 10 or 12 gauge that may be there now? On our C30 engine compartments, real estate for mounting something like a maxi-fuse is sparse.

Craig

[Ron Hill]

Phil : Let me answer your original question :

The dog house shaped PC board attached to the back of the temperature gage is a Hi Temp warning system.  If you connect a wire from "ground" to "sender" you'll see that the analog temp needle goes past 200 degrees and sends a digital signal to the buzzer on the PC board - which then sounds!!

I mounted a momentary toggle on my new engine instrument panel (wired as I said) and had myself a "press to test" for that Hi Temp alarm.

A few thoughts

[Noah]

I (or Ron) may be confused... But, with the risk of misunderstanding you...if you are using the same panel and components you said "look just like mine" then that old circuit board attached to back of the engine panel is no longer needed--it is replaced by new dual alarm oil/water buzzer/sender system.

[KWKloeber]

I (or Ron) may be confused... But, with the risk of misunderstanding you...if you are using the same panel and components you said "look just like mine" then that old circuit board attached to back of the engine panel is no longer needed--it is replaced by new dual alarm oil/water buzzer/sender system.

At the risk of inserting foot in mouth --- since he bought an unpopulated panel, it probably doesn't have the new alarm set up for the hi-temperature switch?

If so there's a few options --

1.   Use the old temperature /alarm circuit board (until it craps out) with just the temperature sender (no hi-temp switch).

2.   Use a single 12v piezo buzzer with both the oil pressure and temp switch, because all you're doing with each is completing a ground path to fire up the piezo buzzer.  The temp gauge will tell you what the problem is, if the alarm sounds.

3.   Use two different piezo buzzers, with different tones, one on the oil switch and the other for the temp switch.

4.   Maybe the panel contains the new alarm? --  In which case extract foot from mouth.  


Ken

[Eisensail]

Ron is correct, the panel that I got from Seaward (Dennis) has the large dual alarm already mounted on it.  I got an email from Dennis today with instructions to remove the circuit board from my gauge and route the wire that used to go that board to the "P" terminal of the new alarm.

[KWKloeber]

Ken - What would you recommend for fuse hardware if one was going to upsize to 8 gauge from the starter to the panel? or even one sustained the 10 or 12 gauge that may be there now? On our C30 engine compartments, real estate for mounting something like a maxi-fuse is sparse.

Craig

Craig,

At the risk of being overly verbose, I copied below a reply on the "other" list.

The OEM harness wire is 10 awg, so I would use a 10 AWG inline ATC fuse holder when reusing that wire.  There's tons of supplies of in-line fuse holders - I was working with a high-quality wholesale supplier trying to find an ATC holder with a cap large enough so I can use a manual reset ATC breaker -- but we never located one that fits.

If going to 8 awg, then I use an inline Maxi fuse, not a mounted Maxi holder. 

The rub is, I haven't (yet) found a really nice version of either an ATC or Maxi fuse holder with fine-strand, tinned marine wire -- but since you're using new ot at least clean wire ends, adhesive-lined butts, and additional adhesive-lined heat shrink tubing, using untinned wire isn't fatal. 

I attached a pic of an 8 awg C-30 harness lead using an in-line Maxi holder -- In this one you can see that I used a manual reset 30-amp Maxi breaker.

There's hundreds of in-line 10 awg ATC and Maxi blade fuse holders on Amazon, eBay, and others locations if you Google it.  See some of the links in what I pasted below...

Did I answer your questions?
Ken

[attachimg=#]



Hi Randy,

Short and sweet.
The fuse on the "S" wire is USELESS where it is - you can trash it.  Also you won't affect the glow plugs - it's a fuse, not a choke.

The rest is a little more involved.  it would be easier to discuss off-line by good old phone - email me if you want to get together.

see for 10 awg fuse holder:
http://www.sherco-auto.com/electacc.htm#fh
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=%2210%20awg%22%20fuse%20holder
http://www.wiringproducts.com/atc-fuse-holders
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-Pieces-Scosche-10-AWG-Gauge-Copper-12-Volt-ATC-Fuse-Holder-Wire-Cable-Auto-/251448742372
There's about 2 zillion out there, but hard to find thin-strand, tinned wire marine wire.  Again, I haven't yet found the "right one" for my kits.

I am sourcing an ATC  circuit breaker to use in my kits, but haven't found the right one that I want to use.

You can use an 8 AWG Maxi-Fuse holder and MANUAL RESET maxi breaker (nice - instead of a fuse,) but the footprint is huge.

I do like using an 8 AWG fuse holder with a starter terminal lug, which is much better than the crappy thin 5/16 hole terminals for 10 AWG.  I have done that and used a 8 awg x 10 awg step-down butt connector.  I have also used 8 awg for the entire power lead (better option.)

Think about installing the glow plug relay in the engine compartment.  Why?
The 10 awg harness wires are good for 50 amp, but the 16 awg "S wire" is  good for 20 amo -- so theoretically the power wire needs to be fused at 20 amp.  HOWEVER, add together the glow plugs (18-20 amp,) the bilge blower ? amp), fuel lift (1-2amp), Solenoid switch (? amp) -- and a 20 amp fuse on the power feed isn't enough.  The glow plug relay solves that.

That said, even a 30 amp fuse on the power lead is better than what you have now.  You're more likely to burn up the harness from a short to ground, than from overcurrent with all the above turned on -- and at least a 30 amp will protect if there's a short.

As you can see there's NO 'easy' answer -- because the darn engine wiring and harness were poorly designed and dangerous in the first place, so anything we do is a half measure.  You CAN overcome this by reassiging some wires (like making the "S wire" a 10 awg ) and adding an 8 awg power lead to the panel.  I would ESPECIALLY upsize the S wire to AT LEAST 10 AWG - which you can do using the old orange ammeter/charge wire.

I attached a one example of adding new wires, reassiging old ones, adding a high-temo switch, better grounds, etc, - - this was for Dan C's harness.  With that we put a 20 amp breaker on the panel.  Just another option.

ANYWHERE that I put a wire on a terminal where the wire is not secured within a few inches (alternator, solenoid, glow plugs, senders -- anywhere on the engine,) I use a HEAVY DUTY lug to prevent flexing of the terminal, and add extra heat shrink to protect the wire from vibration/flexing (preventing a cold work break in the wire just outside the terminal. )

Also, think about installing a GOOD ground to the alternator and harness, as well that can be used for the nearby fuel pump, bilge pump, etc.

I am looking for a guinea pig with an M25 or XP to help prototype my harness upgrade kit  -- well probably three kits, from basic to the gold standard.  In exchange there's a free harnmess upgrade for putting up with my nitpicking.  I'd rather it a C30 on winter lay up so there's no pressure to rush this thru.

Cheers,
Ken K

[Eisensail]

Sorry I think it was Noah that was correct about my panel.  Too many new names!

Anyway,  if want to add the the high temp switch to my engine, is the only way to do it is by replacing the housing? I think I saw a thread where somebody was taking about drill and tap the old housing.  Has anybody done this?

[KWKloeber]

Sorry I think it was Noah that was correct about my panel.  Too many new names!

Anyway,  if want to add the the high temp switch to my engine, is the only way to do it is by replacing the housing? I think I saw a thread where somebody was taking about drill and tap the old housing.  Has anybody done this?

YESSS!  C-30-er Craig (below) drilled/tapped his thermostat cap on his 25-XP.

An option (that another C30-er did) was replace the 1/8" petcock on top with the 1/8" temperature switch.


Ken K

[Noah]

You can do that. I just took the easy way out and threw a $171 at the problem and solved it no fuss no muss. Of course that was when I just bought the boat and had lots of money...now, a year later...not so much!  

http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/2433_382/high-temp-alarm-retrofit-m-18-m-25-m-25xp-m-35.cfm

Here is the alarm that you probably have
http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm/product/2384_382/alarm-module-dual-tone-engine-panel.cfm
There are some "fairly clear" install instruction on this site for the engine panel and its parts plus a wiring diagram you can download that may be some help.

[Craig Illman]

Thanks Ken. A little more shopping to do now.

Yes, I did tap in a port for a high temp switch. I'm just going to need a dry day to do the engine panel swap. Now that the rainy season has started, it may be next May or June.

Craig

[Ron Hill]

Noah, Phil & Guys : Let me repeat what I said about the circuit board!!  It is attached to the BACK of the temperature gage itself!!

[Noah]

You are right Ron. Now that I look at the photo of my old panel taken when I first removed it. Unfortunately, I do not remember whether it "rode along" with the old gauge and I just reinstalled whole semi-crusty thing back into the new panel. Lame that I can't remember! I may root around later for a photo of my new panel assembled...but as much as I would like to help...and not steer anyone onto the rocks...I am not unbeddeding my panel to take a look!👀😁

[Eisensail]

Sorry, it took me a few tries to get this pic to post.  Here is the panel as I got it from Seaward.  You can see a few things are already installed and ready to go.

[Eisensail]

The high water temp light (shown in the pic I posted) is why I have been asking about adding the switch hole to the thermostat.  I would rather not spend $150+ for a new thermostat housing just to get an extra threaded hole.

Craig, Can you share more about your project?  Did you remove the housing to add the hole?  Where is the hole located? Thanks!

Ken, what is the down side to using the petcock position for the temp switch? Not sure I even know if I will ever need to bleed my engine??

[Stu Jackson]

Ken, what is the down side to using the petcock position for the temp switch? Not sure I even know if I will ever need to bleed my engine??

It's called BURPING.  Bleeding is for your diesel fuel line.

Engine Overheating 101 - How to Burp Your Engine (Reply #6)  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.msg26462.html#msg26462

You really don't need the petcock if you do it this way.