BATTERIES

[Ron Hill]

Guys  : The problem that Capt Cod had and "discovered the solution to" was written up well over 20 years ago!!! 
As Stu said there are MANY solutions to common problems in our Critical Update section. 
Do a tiny bit of reading and it will save you a bunch of grief!

A thought

[Clay Greene]

Would a blown fuse to the starter solenoid explain why the batteries are not getting charge from the alternator?  I am trying to remember where that fuse is wired. 

I am curious about the water level in the batteries.  That would explain why the batteries are not holding a charge even if all the connections are good and the alternator is putting out charging current.  It also is a simple explanation and easy to remedy, two of my favorite things when it comes to boat problems! 

[Set2sea]

Thanks all for the input. I should be heading out to the boat tonight with two fully charged batteries and an electrical engineer friend that knows boat wiring, hopefully we can get to the bottom of it. I am printing out all of your comments and bringing with me.
I just want to go sailing!!! Whaaa Whaa 

[Ron Hill]

Clay : The fuse to the starter solenoid if blown just means that you can't start the engine - as the starter will not turn over!!

[Stephen Butler]

We know how you feel.  When we first came aboard our C34, we thought we were going to be going sailing on a sailboat, and quickly realized that the majority of our first year was going to be focused below deck on engines, electrical issues, plumbing, tankage, etc., and not on sails and sailing.  It took a year of just being patient, reading the forum twice a day, making to-do lists, and resolving each system.  We still spend more time worrying about engines, electrical issues, etc., but the boat is now also a sailing craft, which when aboard, we enjoy immensely .  It will all come together.

[Fred Koehlmann]

This thread is very timely for us, as our Battery #2 died while we were on a two week vacation. We were using both batteries normally together (switch set to ALL), but we noticed that even after a day of motoring (light winds) that they went down to 50% in almost no time at all (our fridge was on). So I alternated batteries when motoring and then next day while running on battery #1, battery #2 completely discharged on its own. We survived the remainder of the vacation (over a week) by just leaving the switch on #1.

Hydrometer readings showed that one cell on battery #2 was dead (in the red). All the other cells were great (actually higher then the cells of the good battery #1), but that one cell killed the rest of the battery. What I'm wondering is if there is a way to "rejuvenate" the battery or am I looking at getting new ones? The pair are big wet probably 4D batteries. A sticker indicates that they were shipped 2007. My understanding s that they might be getting close to end of life, but I also heard how many have had batteries last for 10+ years. I've been reading about "equalizing" of batteries, but it sounds like it only works if the battery is still good.

As to why it happened, I'm not sure if this is the reason... after doing a trace of the DC wiring I found that the windlass was directly wired to the #2 post on the 1-2-ALL-None switch. So no matter how the switch was turned, the windlass was always on #2.

[Stu Jackson]

1.  Hydrometer readings showed that one cell on battery #2 was dead (in the red). All the other cells were great (actually higher then the cells of the good battery #1), but that one cell killed the rest of the battery. What I'm wondering is if there is a way to "rejuvenate" the battery or am I looking at getting new ones? The pair are big wet probably 4D batteries. A sticker indicates that they were shipped 2007. My understanding s that they might be getting close to end of life, but I also heard how many have had batteries last for 10+ years. I've been reading about "equalizing" of batteries, but it sounds like it only works if the battery is still good.

2.  As to why it happened, I'm not sure if this is the reason... after doing a trace of the DC wiring I found that the windlass was directly wired to the #2 post on the 1-2-ALL-None switch. So no matter how the switch was turned, the windlass was always on #2.

1.  Equalizing wet cell batteries is not something that is used to bring them back from the dead.     It is part of regular battery maintenance.  It sounds like your one battery is toast.  How many years a bank lasts has to do with the "proper care and feeding" of the batteries.  Many battery issues are discussed in the "Electrical 101" topic.  The linked Ample Power Primer is a very useful tutorial on battery health.  It appears you need a new set of batteries.  If, however, you continue to run on 1 and then 2 (called "alternating two equal house banks"), you could just buy one new battery.  That way you won't be mixing old & new in a single bank, except for when charging sources are present.  That would be the most cost effective solution, if you choose to continue to use the alternating house bank concept.  This does however, reduce the life of your batteries as discussed in the wiring discussions in the "Electrical 101" topic posts - same batteries, same amount of lead, but separated batteries used alternately will not last as long as a larger single bank.

2.  Nope.  You just had a bad cell or one that went bad.  Has nothing to do with how the windlass was wired, since it only should be drawing current when it's running.

[Fred Koehlmann]

Thanks Stu,

I sort of thought that would be the answer. I figure that I'll replace both with new for the house and maybe save the good one for backup/starter battery (not sure which way yet). The only thing is that these 4Ds are such beasts and finding another location for it is not so easy (unless I want to steal from easy to access storage).

I guess I should be able to hobble through the rest of our short summer with the one battery.

[Roc]

Frederick,
Since one 4D is toast, think about converting to all golf cart batteries.  If you take out the fiberglass pans that house the current 4 D's, you can put 4 group 24 battery boxes (from West Marine), and they each will hold one 6 volt golf cart battery.

[Set2sea]

Why golf cart batteries? Why do you and others use them instead of 12V?

[Ron Hill]

Paul : You have just lit a fire under the Battery Gaurs!  

Look on our site and there is tons written on using golf cart batteries for the hose bank!!

Check WiKi.  A thought 

[Fuzzy]

Frederick:
If you go with new batteries, golf cart batteries are the way to go.  If you don't have room for the extra
good battery for a starter battery you can get by real good with a small auto battery for less money (when
buying new) and also lighter and take up less space.  We went with that set-up a few years ago and have
been extremely pleased.
Larry

[Stu Jackson]

Why golf cart batteries? Why do you and others use them instead of 12V?

Paul, the C34 Tech wiki has some answers to your questions.  

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Electrical

Scroll down to Batteries.

Basic answer:  

---  less weight per unit so easier to move onto the boat without breaking your back
---  heavy plates designed for deep cycles on golf carts that take lots of abuse
---  small footprint, easy to fit in unusual spaces
---  easy to find, cost effective, best bag-for-the-buck in size vs amp hours

6V need to be wired in series then parallel.  The "Electrical 101" topic has a link to a "how to"

[Set2sea]

Thanks for the golf battery explanation Stu.
Well I solved the batteries not charging mystery last night.
The reason my batteries weren't charging was because of too loose belt tension!! I had been unsatisfied with the belt tension I had seen on the hard and I tried to get it tighter more than once. Last night I opened the engine compartment and I could turn the belt without it turning alternator (oh the alternator need to turn to charge the batteries?:). I put a big fender washer under the bracket screw, pulled the alternator back as far as I could and tightened. When I cranked up the engine I finally saw 14 volts on my batteries!! Now hopefully she can retain that belt tension. I do have the upgraded alternator bracket. The bracket is so narrow and the slot is so close to the end, there isn't a lot of surface area for the screw to grab, hence the large fender washer. Going to search for keeping the alternator where you want it, as I'm sure it's been written up : )
On to my leaky water pump and oh yeah, that brand new JABSCO Twist and Lock that wont pump the bowl! Sure is fun taking that apart and having the "lovely water" going everywhere.
This weekend I am without kids and wife so I am talking a half day Friday and sailing to Gloucester for the weekend come hell or high brown water!!

[Clay Greene]

Congratulations on figuring this out!