BATTERIES

[Set2sea]

Am I foolish to try to run a C34 off of two Sears die hard deep cycle batteries and a 1 B 2 off switch? I ran my last 31 foot boat like that for 10 years and was never left without enough cranks amps to fire the engine. Last week I went on my first 5 day cruise and was left without enough juice to fire the engine, batteries both brand new this season. It made for a long sail home.
The boat started in the morning. I power sailed for about 45 minutes, shut off the engine and just ran my GPS, cooked a couple of hot dogs on the stove. When I went to fire the engine - No go on battery 2, No go on 1 and No go on both. I cleaned all my connections and still nothing?
Does anyone know of a good marine electrical guy in the Boston area?

[Ron Hill]

Paul : Before the electrician arrives :
I'd check the voltage (multi meter) at the batteries (individually) when the engine is running and then when the shore power is ON.
At least, You can get an idea of what is happening.  Simple range of voltages between 13.5V and 14V are good.

It is most likely that the batteries were not fully charged when you bought them and you may never have gotten them up to 100% before you tried to use them.   

I'm sure that you'll get a TON of advice more Exacting than mine!!   A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

1.  Am I foolish to try to run a C34 off of two Sears die hard deep cycle batteries and a 1 B 2 off switch?

2.  Last week I went on my first 5 day cruise and was left without enough juice to fire the engine, batteries both brand new this season. ...I cleaned all my connections and still nothing?

3.   Does anyone know of a good marine electrical guy in the Boston area?

Paul, sorry to hear about your bad experience.

1.  Yes, if you have a fridge.  No, if you don't, but do an energy budget since we have NO IDEA as to how much energy you use daily or how big each of your individual batteries is.

2.  How old are the batteries?

3.  If you are a DIY boater, then a marine electrician shouldn't be necessary.  If you're not a DIY, then maybe an "installer" would be helpful 'cuz he'd have the right tools, but I've always felt knowing my electrical system was a MAJOR SAFETY ISSUE.  The "Critical Upgrades" topic has some electrical information, and the "101 Topics" both here and on the wiki have "Electrical 101" including these two that might help you design a system that works for you: 

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams  This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

This is another very good basic primer for boat system wiring:  The 1-2-B Switch by Maine Sail (brings together a lot of what this subject is all about)
http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=137615

Good luck, but when it comes to electrical systems, I always suggest that luck should have NOTHING to do with it.   

[Footloose]

Paul,

As an owner without a fridge, I will agree with Stu that you can do it with your current setup.  It is what we have.  We can be on the hook for two nights, play the radio all day, lights on in the evening playing cards or reading, anchor light all night and start the engine on the same group 31 deep cycle battery.  I keep one in reserve for the "just in case".  Murphy is the hardest working Irishman.  When day sailing, I switch back and forth between the batteries depending on which day it is.  I use 1 if it is an odd numbered date, 2 if it if it is an even number.  Throughout the sailing season it probably evens out.  When cruising I will keep it on the same battery through the time out unless we have a windless day and motor for an extended time.  If that happens I will put the switch to All and then switch batteries.  This has been working for eight years without fail.  Just to throw more fuel on the fire, the boat lives on a mooring.  I have yet to be plugged in this year.  I do not have a solar panel.

Your electrical system may need some tuning up.  If the lugs on the cables are corroded they should be replaced and new lugs crimped and soldered on.  Do you have the solenoid upgrade for the glow plugs?  Has the wiring harness been upgraded?  This one if it hasn't been done is also a fire hazard.  Let us know what you have.  This is all doable by an owner.  If you don't know how to solder, YouTube has videos on this stuff.

Remember, it is all done with wires.  It isn't hard, but it may take some problem solving.  In the end you will know your boat very well so that you can rescue yourself.

[patrice]

Hi,
One thing that might help starting with not much batteries power.
Have you tried the decompression lever ?
Had this issue last year before having solar panel, being on a mooring.  Just enough power to turn but was not starting.  It did start like this

[Stu Jackson]

The decompression lever, IMHO, should be used as a case of last resort, but it's useful, as Patrice points out, to know it is there and how to use it.

It's discussed in somewhat more detail in the first part of this post:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5409.msg33527.html#msg33527

[Set2sea]

I was able to start the engine last night with a jump pack. With voltmeter on the batteries, the batteries where not charging. Battery 2 was staying at around 11.75 volts but battery 1 was draining fast - like 2.5 volts? Battery 1 would come back up to 11.5 with engine draw off. I pulled the alternator and had it tested this morning. It tested fine. The guy said to check the regulator, he gave me a few things to look for in regulator. The fact that battery 1 is draining so fast should be tell tale but telling of what, I don't know? The gage on the engine panel is showing 13 volts with engine running.

[Jim Hardesty]

"Shamrock" is wired (from the factory) so that only battery #1 charges from the alternator.  To charge both batteries from the alternator move the selector switch to both.  Don't know why they do that, or that your boat is that way.  When a charged battery is added to a discharged battery the charged battery will quickly drain into the low battery.  Sum power will be less.  13 volts (if that is accurate) is low to be charging batteries.  Don't know if this helps you.  Hope it does.
Jim

[Ron Hill]

Paul : Jim is correct that 13.0V is not a sufficient charge from the alternator!!  If the alternator is OK then I think you have a voltage regulator and or wire connection problem/s ??

From your battery voltages, it sounds as though neither battery has ever been charged to 100% or 12.75V. Turn on your shore power charger and get them back up to 100% charge.

[Ted Pounds]

Paul,
Do you have the wire-harness upgrade?

[Clay Greene]

It is an odd problem in that the voltmeter at the engine panel is showing 13 volts or so but the batteries themselves are not charging.  13 volts, although lower than it should be, indicates that the alternator is putting out power.  But the power is not getting to the batteries.  That suggests a connection issue.  Some thoughts:

1.  I would check the voltage at the alternator output post when the engine is running.  You need to be careful of the v-belt but you can do it from the access opening in the head.  My bet is that it is going to show 14+ volts.

2.  Have you checked the water level in the batteries?  If it gets too low, the batteries will not hold a charge. 

3.  Assuming #s 1 and 2 are OK, I would check the connections of the red wire that runs between the common post of the battery switch and the starter.  A failure at either of those two points would explain why the charging current from the alternator is not getting back to the batteries.  There is a small jump wire that runs from your alternator to your starter and then the same wire that runs power from the batteries to the starter also runs power from the alternator through the starter and back to the common post on the battery switch and ultimately to the batteries. 

4.  My guess is that you do not have the wire harness upgrade and that resistance in the (horrible) black plugs is causing your alternator output to read 13 volts in the engine panel.  Regardless of whether or not that is true, you need to replace those plugs.  Either use a temstrip to make those connections or direct wire to the engine panel (that is what we did).  But that is a peripheral issue to your current problem because the charging current from the alternator does not run through the engine panel. 

[Clay Greene]

A couple more thoughts to consider.  Long-term I would consider doing a couple of things, particularly if you plan to be away from shore power for extended periods of time:

1.  Install a reserve battery.  There are many possible locations but we put ours forward of the starboard water tank.  It was wired to the "2" post on the switch.  We wired the two house batteries in parallel and ran those to the "1" post on the switch.  That will double your house bank capacity and you will always know you can start the engine if you run down the house bank with the fridge, lights, etc.  You can switch to "C" to charge both the house bank and the reserve bank or you can install an automatic charging relay between the house bank and the reserve battery so that the reserve battery is always getting charged.  That is what we did and I just left the switch on "1" all the time. 

2.  Run a new charging wire directly from the alternator to the house bank (with the ACR I mentioned above).  It is a more efficient way to charge your batteries than the jump wire from the alternator to the starter and the wire from the starter through the battery switch.  You'll also not have to worry about frying your alternator if someone switches the battery switch to "OFF" when the engine is running. 

3.  Install a Victron digital battery monitor or a similar product.  That way you will always know the exact state of charge of your batteries, including amp draw and remaining battery capacity.  I find the analog gauges to be pretty close to useless. A fully charged battery is 12.73 volts and an 20 percent discharged battery is 12.5 volts and there is no way to distinguish that with an analog gauge. Check out Maine Sail's website for a discussion of the uses of battery monitors and the Victron model. 

[captcod]

I had the exact same problem 3 weeks ago. I was sailing all day and both batteries are fully charged, when I went to return to port and start my engine, nothing, not on #1 or #2 or both. I sailed into my slip but after poking around i found, by accident while wiggling the wire that plugs into the starting motor solenoid and has an in-line fuse, I had power to the starter again. I unplugged the wire from the starting motor and removed the fuse at the other end. Both connectors on the fuse had black corrosion build-up that I sanded off clean ( both connectors on the fuse holder and both ends of the fuse ) I them smeared di-electric grease onto all connectors and reconnected. I haven't had any problems since.

I hope this might help! Sure sounds like the issue i had.

Capt Cod

[Stu Jackson]

For those of you new to a Catalina 34 and this Board, please, please, please read the

CRITICAL UPGRADES topic  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.0.html

It includes just these issues that seem to perplex new owners.

And, again welcome to the community.

[Ken Juul]

As long as you are checking wires in the engine compartment, don't forget the main ground that is back behind the starter.  Out of sight, it is often forgotten.  Make sure it is clean and tight.