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Author Topic: CRITICAL UPGRADES - DO THESE OR ELSE!!!  (Read 36159 times)
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Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
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Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
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« on: July 07, 2009, 11:30:46 AM »

DO THESE THINGS OR ELSE!!!

In a recent post, Walt suggested a "Critical Upgrades" wiki.  Paul also suggested adding the "Do These Or Else!!!" idea.  I don't know how many of you read the wiki on a regular basis as compared to "coming here" to this MB.  I've always felt that the wiki, while interactive, is more of an information depository, so we've created this topic here.

1,  The traveler bolt update really only applies to the 1986 and some 1987 C34s.  All subsequent production have those bolts.
 
2.  Here's another critical "early model upgrade" -- There are probably still some 1986 C34 owners out there that still have the "over the top" alternator adjusting bracket (M25 engine - about 275 hulls) that can and will break!!  This broken bracket has been known to puncture the oil filter!!  As one of this message board's frequent contributors can attest to!!

3.  Now if we can only get ALL of the almost 1100 hulls (1986-1991) to install the Wiring Harness Upgrade (Fire Hazard - BIG TIME) !!  


Links:

1. Traveler bolts  - http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5071.0.html

2. Alternator bracket - http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=M-25_Alternator_Mount_Conversion_Kit_%22B/M_256891%22  Once you do this, you'll need to BURP the freshwater coolant, here's how, Reply #6:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4518.0.html

3. Wiring Harness & FIRE Hazard - http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4546.0.html  [Ammeters and shunts are discussed here: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6032.0.html

For a step-by-step see Replies #11 & 12, here::::  

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6223.0.html

If you read the engine information on the WIKI you'll find a LOT of this material. Here: http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Diesel_Engine  FIND and READ the original Seaward/Catalina Gerry Douglas article there.  See Reply #21 on page 2 of this topic also.

So now we've produced all the different items and ways to find information I mentioned in the traveler bolts topic and have added this "critical upgrades" list.  If there's anything else we can do, please let me know.

As a reminder, I noted in the traveler bolt topic this: "Steve Lyle's "My First Year Weblog" covers many important issues for owners of older boats, and is almost a checklist of what to look out for that may require immediate upgrades if the PO or POs did not perform that work.  See: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,663.0.html."  Do a search on the word "weblog" --  there's lots of very good information that has been contributed.

Many of us feel that a quality electrical system is also a safety item, and you can read lots about that issue.

Please feel free to ADD to this list, we'll keep it a sticky.

There are multiple pages in this topic.  PLEASE read them ALL.  Thanks.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2011, 11:56:11 AM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Stu Jackson
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« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2009, 01:16:59 PM »

Here's another one:  

Hot water heater hose replacement
UNDER THE GALLEY SOLE
 

If your hoses wear out, you lose ALL engine coolant, and your engine will pack it in.  Really!!!

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,3769.0.html

We also need to ask ourselves the question:  What is "routine maintenance" and what is "critical'?

Oil and transmission fluid changes?  for example...just sayin'
« Last Edit: December 16, 2013, 07:25:29 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

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Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
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« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2009, 01:31:17 PM »

Another example:

exhaust riser replacement

A link with photos of the new riser for a 1986 boat and the original Catalina Yachts engineering diagram of that riser.  Please note that Mark II boats have a different riser configuration.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5989.0.html
« Last Edit: December 26, 2010, 02:43:54 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
MarkT
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« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2009, 06:26:50 PM »

Having recently bought a Mk1 boat I'm becoming intimately aware of these deficiencies on older boats. I think the focus needs to be on the issues that a surveyor will miss because he is not a specialist on the Catalina 34. I'm reading this thread and thinking check done that on the heater hose replacement, check yes I have the newer design alternator bracket. Upgraded wiring harness - no ; I will order it today.

I just hope there isn't something hiding that I don't know about yet because after three months I'm starting to gain some confidence in the boat. Lots of leaks to chase down but I'm very happy with the package.

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Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
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« Reply #4 on: July 07, 2009, 07:08:48 PM »

I just hope there isn't something hiding that I don't know about yet because after three months I'm starting to gain some confidence in the boat.

Mark, welcome.  "Something hiding?"  Yes, it's a boat! Very Happy  More seriously, though, we have done our best to be able to provide you and others with everything we've found so far.  There will always be something new.  The way you put your message is that you have reviewed what we've provided.  You wrote: "I think the focus needs to be on the issues that a surveyor will miss because he is not a specialist on the Catalina 34."  

What I did was spend over a year looking for a C34, and I provided my surveyor with as much C34 website documents that were available way back in 1998 for our then-twelve year old boat.  The surveyor asked me for a copy of the material!  However, not everyone reviews this website before they buy a C34, many find it only later.  You want focus?  Whose focus?  Again, I suggest reading Steve Lyle's First Year Weblog (http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,663.0.html), which discusses exactly what you mention, and which is very important.  But remember, we can't control the quality of surveyors, and we can't make prospective buyers read this website, either.  We also can't "make" C34 owners find this website or even read or fully appreciate its depth after they've bought their boats.  We appreciate everyone who visits and contributes here.

And there's nothing specifically different on a C34 than any other boat as far as a QUALIFIED surveyor's concerned:  engine, electrical, rigging.  In fact, the C30 and C36 systems are very similar, if not identical  The traveler bolts were a C30 issue, too, not just C34s. The traveler bolt issue was first written up by Jim Moe, our former C34 Association Editor and the owner of both a C30 and C34.  The wiring harness applies to all Catalinas within a certain age range, and many other boat builders as well.  Not only were the trailer wiring plugs prone to disintegration, but the whole "ammeter in the cockpit" electrical design was nuts.  Having the alternator output go to the 1-2-B switch was also a cost conscious move, not an electrical design one.   And the Universal diesels with alternator bracket issues were installed on lotsa Ericsons among others, too.  I helped fix a friend's M25, he was on my dock, and altered another friend by email when I learned he had this engine in his new-to-him boat.  They were BOTH Ericson 32s, NOT Catalinas.

It appears to me that the issue is NOT specific to Catalina 34s, but rather having surveyors who are qualified AND UP TO DATE on issues with boat systems, because the issues we have found in our C34s exist in other boats, too.

If you're "searching" for stuff to "worry about" why not read the Tech Notes Index?  Or the Knowledgebase?  Their "Table of Contents" approach may identify issues you may not yet be aware of, I don't know what you've read, but you certainly do.  Reading the WIKI index is also helpful.  Heck, I bet eventually you'll get into upgrade projects once you "settle in" on your new boat. Very Happy

Glad you like the "package" and look forward to learning what else you may find and seeing you here.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2010, 08:36:56 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 49
Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
Home Port: Alameda, CA
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2009, 02:42:16 PM »

I received this from Joe Torzsok, #77, Dreamcatcher, Toronto, CA the other day:

I was trying to order the alternator mount conversion kit and the dealer here said it was discontinued by Universal / no longer available.  I've read this is a recommended project - so makes me wonder why...

I replied:

YIKES!!!  If you have an M25 and you haven't done it yet, then find one from www.marinedieseldirect.com.  That is disturbing news.  Makes you wonder why?  Easy --- business: people stopped ordering 'em, they figured they'd made enough of 'em for the engine quantity they produced.  But there are still folks out there who haven't....

Please remember, this is NOT a C34 "defect" or deficiency" because Universal made these M25 engines that were put into many, many different manufacturer's boats.

Also, try Catalina Direct for a source for these brackets.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2013, 09:23:50 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 49
Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2009, 01:18:09 PM »

ENGINE SERVICE BULLETINS

YOU'D BE REALLY DUMB TO NOT CHECK THESE

AND THEN ACTUALLY DO THEM


And here's a good reason WHY:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6017.0.html  Sorry to hear about Dave's misfortune.  [Added 11/25/10]

Do a search on the word "bulletins" and find information on Westerbeke engine issues for the M35 engines.  There are many topics on this issue that you should know about and read.

Also look around the Westerbeke/Universal engine website, here:

http://www.westerbeke.com/Products/InstallationManual.aspx?ID=7
« Last Edit: September 02, 2013, 09:25:09 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 49
Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
Home Port: Alameda, CA
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2009, 01:22:30 PM »

Disclaimer Time:  Just to be very clear, please read the disclaimer included on many pages of this volunteer organization's website:

Important: The opinions expressed here are those of the individual contributors to this page, and not those of the Catalina 34 International Association or Catalina Yachts, Inc. Additionally, this material has not been reviewed by Catalina Yachts, Inc. for technical accuracy. This page's maintainer cannot guarantee the accuracy of this information or the desirability of suggested modifications or upgrades. Please obtain assistance from a competent marine mechanic or boatyard prior to making any significant modifications to your vessel.

This applies to this message board, too. 

We are not claiming that the suggestions included on this topic covers everything that might break on your boat! 
« Last Edit: November 25, 2010, 07:45:09 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 49
Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
Home Port: Alameda, CA
Posts: 5195



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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2009, 04:59:14 PM »

Edson Throttle and Gear Shift levers

Replace the plastic ones before they break at the worst possible time.

Skippers have reported that the throttle shift lever may cause a problem because of a conflict with the binnacle.  Didn't happen on my boat.

Here's a more recent discussion of this topic:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4312.0.html
« Last Edit: August 12, 2013, 03:54:34 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Ron Hill
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2009, 09:02:04 PM »

Guys : I agree with Stu and someone needs to separate the CRITICAL updates from the LESS Critical and the routine maintenance.  Routine has no place here!!
 
Water heater hose like any other hoses - to me are routine
Hump hose saves the muffler inlet, but is not critical
Steering Idler Pins early C34 bronze ones should be replaced by stainless pins - critical if worn though - inspection warranted - inspection CRITICAL !!
M35 engine raw water sleeves, gussets on engine mounts & fuel filter brackets - critical
Exhaust Riser needs to be watched and replaced when it fails in about 10yrs - not critical
Traveler thru Bolts for the 1986 C34s Traveler 1987 and later C34 have this thru bolt!! - critical

I'd recommend that this site be edited by the web master so only critical items are allowed to be posted.  Or otherwise a bunch of personal experiences will overflow into this important topic.  A thought
« Last Edit: February 13, 2014, 12:09:32 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Ron, Apache #788
Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 49
Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
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« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2009, 01:45:30 PM »

Routine has no place here!!
 
Water heater hose like any other hoses - to me are routine

Steering Idler Pins early C34 bronze ones should be replaced by stainless pins - critical if worn thru - inspection warrented !!

M35 engine raw water sleeves, gossets on engine mounts & fuel filter brackets - critical

I'd recommend that this site be edited by the web master so only critical items are allowed to be posted.  Or otherwise a bunch of personal experiences will overflow into this important topic. 

I agree routine has no place here, 'ceptin' that you and I may beg to differ on some issues.  The heater hose I referred to is the one UNDER THE GALLEY SOLE which most folks forget completely about.  Since loss of coolant and engine failure result immediately, I think it's kinda critical.  The M35 engine gussets and brackets were covered in my suggestion to do a search on the word "bulletins" which cover those issues.

The webmaster, no more than any of us, is not, nor should anyone be, in a position to edit these items.  And, since this particular topic was posted a few weeks ago at the suggestion of a few registrants, other than you and me (plus Mark's question), we haven't seen anyone add to it! Very Happy
« Last Edit: July 23, 2009, 02:32:44 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 49
Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
Home Port: Alameda, CA
Posts: 5195



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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2009, 02:31:39 PM »

Check the raw water pump for weeping

(see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5073.0.html)

While not technically an upgrade, and could be considered rather more of a maintenance item, it is something that is sometimes "out of sight, out of mind" and requires vigilance.

Added 9/21/09:  here's a weep hole on an Oberdorfer rw pump:


* 0131 RW Pump Weep Holes (Medium).JPG (71.55 KB, 800x533 - viewed 1195 times.)
« Last Edit: April 08, 2013, 02:18:52 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
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« Reply #12 on: July 27, 2009, 03:41:10 PM »

A critical upgrades section has been added to the wiki
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Ken & Vicki Juul
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Stu Jackson
C34IA - Secretary
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 49
Boat Name / Hull Number: Aquavite #224 1986 SR/FK, M25, NZ Rocna 10 (22#)
Home Port: Alameda, CA
Posts: 5195



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« Reply #13 on: July 30, 2009, 07:17:50 PM »

CAREFUL ENGINE INSPECTION

see: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5127.0.html

and here's another reason

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7398.0.html
« Last Edit: February 08, 2014, 01:53:03 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  San Francisco Bay, SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

"There is no problem so great that it can't be solved."
Ron Hill
Forum - Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy
********

Karma: 45
Boat Name / Hull Number: APACHE #788
Model Year: 1988
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2009, 08:45:58 PM »

If you haven't done it  -- remove the filtering screen on the fuel pick up hose/tube that is in the bottom of the fuel tank!!  It will clog and cause the engine to stop (fuel starvation)!!  These screens were installed in all of the 1986/87/88/89&90 boats and some of the 1991 C34s.  If you have a 1991 or 1992 boat it's best to check - just in case.

You have a Racor and engine fuel filters to filter out the particles.  This has been written up in the Mainsheet tech note many times.  

Added to the Critical upgrade wiki. Ken Juul

Added Stu 8/20/2013:  Thanks to Chuck Parker, a C36 skipper, who wrote:

A consideration in running the tank down low, the first time I took the pickup tube out (when I took the tank out to clean it) I found that someone had obviously taken it out before me. The tube is a hard tube about half way down, then a soft rubber tube that slides over the tip- of the hard tube. This extends down near the bottom, at least in my tank. The filter screen some have on the end of the tube that everyone recommends be taken off was gone..

What happened is they obviously tried to take the tube out by pulling it up thru the little cover plate. The lower tube wont fit thru this hole however, and when they pulled the tube up, the hard tube came out but they pulled the bottom half off, dropping it into the bottom of the tank. They probably never realized they did this, but the bottom line was I was only drawing fuel from the top half of the tank or maybe the top 2/3rds. If I had hit sloppy seas, I could easily have sucked air and stalled out.

To really take the pickup out you have to remove the whole plate and tube fastener.
__________________
Chuck Parker
HelenRita 2072
Atlantic Highlands, NJ


If you DO take the filter screen off, take the advice given by one of our skippers:  make a NOTE of it on the side of the tank!  Very Happy
« Last Edit: September 15, 2013, 01:13:36 PM by Stu Jackson » Logged

Ron, Apache #788
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