Cabin Top Teak Removal/Re-bed etc.

[Mike McDonald]

Hi all,
I'm back for more advice.  I have removed the Teak boards that run fore and aft on the cabin top along the hatch cover, in order to eliminate some cabin top leaks traced to that area.  This has raised a number of issues/concerns.  I have posted some photos below for reference.
1.)  With the teak removed, would I be wise to remove the large fiberglass panel that the hatch cover slides into, and re-bed that as well?  Looks like it will come off by removing the screws along each side.  Not sure if there are any leaks there, but I would hate to put the teak back down and still have leaks.  Is is more complicated than that?
2.)  You can see from the photos that there are a number of small cracks that run outward from the screw holes under the teak rails.  Should they be sealed somehow? Are they normal and harmless?  I plan to countersink the holes before putting the the teak back down. 
3.)  I plan to use Butyl Tape to re-bed the teak.  Should I only put the tape around the screws?  Should I put butyl tape along the length of the teak along the upper edge of the board against the hatch cover upper panel, to prevent water from getting under the teak, or is that unnecessary? How about on the bottom of the teak rail beyond the screw hole area?  The same question applies to the teak blocks that the line clutches mount to.  They were originally mounted with silicone calk YUK!!!!!  I hope I don't find any more silicone calk on the boat, but I suspect I will.
4.)  Suggestions on Teak finishing would be nice, but I'll probably start another thread for that. 
As always, I really appreciate the suggestions from the experienced members of the forum.
Mike.....

[mregan]

I'd oversize the holes a bit then fill with epoxy.  Then re-drill and counter sink the top of the hole a bit.  Put some butyl tape in the top and then put the teak down & screw.  The butyl should form a seal around the screw.  If for some reason it isn't a tight seal and water gets in, the drilled hole is surrounded by the epoxy so no leaks into the deck.

As far as refinishing.  I just used Cetol Natural with the Gloss finish.  Came out really well.  Yearly maintenance is easy.  Just clean and add a coat the next year.

[Stu Jackson]

Mike, great work.  This is the first time I believe we've ever seen pictures of this effort.  If you're using Maine Sail's butyl tape, I suggest you head him to this topic (via pm?) and ask him to comment.

Thanks so much for the details of "what is underneath" that teak.  This
issue" has been one often questioned.  If you'd like, I can post a link to this in the Tech wiki (unless Ken Juul beats me to it! ).

[Mike McDonald]

mregan - thanks for your ideas.  I'll definitely oversize the holes, fill with epoxy, and countersink. 

Stu - I sent a pm to mainesail as you suggested.  Feel free to post the link to the Tech Wiki. 

Anyone have any thoughts on my questions #1 and #2?  Thanks.
Mike.....

[Stu Jackson]

added link back to this topic to the C34 Tech wiki - Leaks / Rebedding  http://c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Leaks

[Stu Jackson]

1.)  With the teak removed, would I be wise to remove the large fiberglass panel that the hatch cover slides into, and re-bed that as well?  Looks like it will come off by removing the screws along each side.  Not sure if there are any leaks there, but I would hate to put the teak back down and still have leaks.  Is is more complicated than that?
2.)  You can see from the photos that there are a number of small cracks that run outward from the screw holes under the teak rails.  Should they be sealed somehow? Are they normal and harmless?  I plan to countersink the holes before putting the the teak back down.

Mike,

1.  I'd remove it while you're there, and bed and seal the holes with butyl tape.

2.  Small cracks - You could either slather the butyl over those cracks or use Captain Tolley's Creeping Crack Cure on the cracks.  Great stuff.  Available at West Marine or the internet, a small plastic jar with a tiny built-in spout, like a small thing of 3:1 oil, does a great job.

The thing you're facing is simple:  while you're in there, overkill it instead of having to come back to it.

Just make sure you don't block the drainage (which goes forward).  Take a look at the forward outboard end of the big teak strips.

[Les Luzar]

Is there a reason to only put the buytl tape only around the drilled hole vs the entire teak piece of wood? It seems that if the buytl was only around the drilled holes, water could get below the teak whereas if the buytl was under the entire piece of teak, then no water could get under the wood. However, the teak may not be able to seat as close to the deck with buytl under the entire piece and would be subsequently slightly higher than it was originally. When I re-bed my deck handrails this fall, I was going to put the buytl under the entire base of each connection point. Should I only put it around the screw/bolt hole on each connection point?

[Mike McDonald]

Thanks again Stu.  Makes sense. I'll let you know how it goes. Hope I don't run into more silicone calk in there.  I spent hours getting it off the surface after removing the line clutch blocks.  Can't seem to find any solvent that will dissolve it.  Acetone softens a little, but not much.  
Mike.....

[Clay Greene]

I tried a bunch of products to remove silicone from our chainplates and "Goof Off" seemed to work the best without causing any damage to the gelcoat on the deck.  I am not aware of anything that will dissolve silicone.  I would suggest sanding the fiberglass where you think the butyl tape will come into contact because the silicone will leave a residue even when no longer visible.  How something could adhere so strongly and provide such little permanent waterproofing is a mystery. 

[Stu Jackson]

Is there a reason to only put the buytl tape only around the drilled hole vs the entire teak piece of wood? It seems that if the buytl was only around the drilled holes, water could get below the teak whereas if the buytl was under the entire piece of teak, then no water could get under the wood. However, the teak may not be able to seat as close to the deck with buytl under the entire piece and would be subsequently slightly higher than it was originally. When I re-bed my deck handrails this fall, I was going to put the buytl under the entire base of each connection point. Should I only put it around the screw/bolt hole on each connection point?

In reply, here is Maine Sail's excellent discussion about how and why about butyl tape:

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=117172

[Les Luzar]

Stu,
Thanks. I have read that article in the past based on the C-34 posts, and printed it as well and refer to it as my butyl tape bible. I have subsequently used it to rebed my stern air vents and the short hand rails under my dodger. What I learned with my small handrails is that it it really good to compress the butyl as much as possible before I reattach the handrails because it was difficult to tighten the handrails all the way to the deck if the butyl was at its thickest. As you tighten it it oozes out but starting off with a thinner application seems to get the handrail closer to the deck and more stable, the way it is supposed to be. Just a comment on my experience.

[mregan]

Les
I'd only put a thin layer of butyl under base of the handrails.  When I removed and re-installed the rails on my C-30, I had that same issue.  Too much butyl and I couldn't get the screws to sink deep enough into the rail to get a good hold on it. 
As far as butyl under the whole teak piece on the side of the hatch,  I would only put it around the screw holes.  Whatever you are using to finish the teak, I'd put it on the bottom of the teak also to protect it.

[Ron Hill]

Mike : I did the job you are doing about 5 or 6 years ago.  That was back in the olden days - BBR (Before Butyl Rubber)

I stopped where you are now and did not remove the top cover where the hatch slides into.  I didn't have the cracks migrating from the screw holes quit as far as yours.  I guessed that the cracks are the gelcoat and not the fiberglass resin. That thickness of fiberglass is hard to crack.  I put some silicone caulk in the holes and screwed the finished teak back in place. 
I'd probably just stuff the holes with butyl rubber and remount the screws as that b-rubber does NOT slather!!

A few thoughts   

[Mike McDonald]

Thanks everyone.  Lot's of great insight.  I really appreciate the support of the forum members!!
Mike.....

[mregan]

Mike
How hard was it to get the teak off.  I just did the same job on my C-30.  Once I dug the bungs out, quite a few of the screw heads were epoxied or sealed in.  It was a real hassle to get some of the screws out.