The feel of Utter Defeat -- WIRING HARNESS

[Ron Hill]

I've been trying to get C34/C36/C30 owners to install the wiring harness upgrade since about 1992.

I've professed this just after I heard Jerry Douglas talk about it at Sail Expo and well before 99% of you had C34 ownership or even thoughts of ownership !!  
Early on there was NO mention of fire!  -  which is a real concern.

I've just received a personal message from a MB poster that mentioned, " I didn't see the AMPmeter even wiggle"! That statement made me sit up and wonder where this owner has been????  
It's all over the Critical Upgrades, in numerous posts on this M Board and in MANY Mainsheet articles.  

If you have read the Mainsheet tech notes you'll see that I'm not in favor of all of the "wiring harness upgrade" as spelled out by Catalina or Seaward.  I am in favor of the rerouting of the alternator charge going to the batteries and eliminating the 8 pin trailor connectors.  I do NOT agree with the engine or engine instrument wiring going to the 8 pin connectors (see my Mainsheet engine replacement article), but instead hard wire direct to the engine and the engine panel.  
Why, I've removed/reinstalled the old engine twice and installed a new engine, ALWAYS disconnecting the wires from the engine itself and NOT the connectors.

If any C34 owners reading this that still have a 1986/1987/1988 with an ammmeter, your boat is at risk!!  
If you are an owner of a 1988/1989/1990/1991/1992 and do NOT have a wire going from the alternator output direct to the + stud on the starter solenoid you are also at risk.  Also Look for the 8 pin "trailer connector" wrapped up in black tape in the port rear of the engine.

Readers, Please take this seriously and inspect your C34s and read the critical updated and look at the extensive writeup on the Wiring Harness Update on our site and at Seaward!!

I give up!!  


 

[mainesail]

Sadly this does not only apply to Catalina.. Many Cape Dory, Pearson, Oday, Ericson and other brands suffer the same piss poor Universal Diesel wiring issues. I have fixed this on all the above brands...

[kevMar]

Ron
    I am in the process of doing the up grade as you suggest. So if your dont use the harness what do you do. Butt connect all the wires? or some other process. I do have the amp guage in the cockpit, so i will have to get a volt meter and install that also. If i do get the harness how is is secured in the engine compartment.Where do i order the upgrade form thanks.

[Les Luzar]

Kevmar,
The Instrument panel and wiring harness was manufactured by Seaward Products in Industry CA (www.seawardproducts.com). Check it out. You might consider the upgraded instrument panel as well as the wiring harness. My 1987 panel was pretty beat up from the elements and my tachometer was acting up so I ordered the the new panel and wiring harness five years ago and it looks great. It cost me about $550 at that time. It is well worth the upgade.

Ron....You can't save everybody so keep up the good work. But I can say you certainly have made a difference in many peoples lives (C-34 owners). My boat had two previous owners and when I bought it 5 years ago, it did not have the wiring harness upgrade. But it was the first major upgrade I did after reading the critical upgrades. Keep up the good work !

[Ken Juul]

there are 2 reasons for this upgrade.  1. get rid of the corrosion prone trailer connectors and 2. reroute the alternator charging wire.  Two ways of approaching removing the connectors.  Add a terminal block or simply splice the wires together.  At the engine end it makes sense to just splice the wires together.  At the instrument panel end it depends on how much slack you have, for maintenance etc you want to be able to pull the panel far enough away from it's mount that you can reach in.

The second part, it makes no sense to route all the alternator amps up the small wire to the ampmeter then back down a small wire to charge the batteries/run the electrics.  The voltmeter is added as a way to monitor the peformance of the alternator.

[Stu Jackson]

Perhaps another way to say what Ron has is: "What part of "Critical" don't people understand?

That's why we made that a sticky topic.  It includes a link to the original Seaward article which explains the whole thing.

We have the same issue with the alternator bracket for the M25 engines.  Happened to me!  While not a fire hazard, it can toast your entire engine.  Making for a not-so-good day.

We try...

Where do i order the upgrade from thanks.

I'm pretty sure that if you read the Critical Upgrades topic, the links will explain where to get the harness - from Seaward.  In fact, the very first CU post does just that IN THOSE LINKS.  But the links also discuss that many folks have found that the wiring is just fine, it's the connectors that need to be replaced.  Please read the topic and the links, which we re-emphasized on page 2 of the Critical Upgrades topic with even more links to folks who have done the work. This one: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg35943.html#msg35943

Thanks for listening and reading.  Don't know what more we could do.

[Ron Hill]

Kev : I always preffer to solder wires and use heat shrink rather than a butt splice, but if you want to use the butt splice - do it. 
I'm just trying to point out that the "Euro connectors" are another possible source of a poor & unnecessary $$ / connection.  If the engine needs to come out (for whatever the reason) you'll wind up disconnecting the wiring from the engine just like I did.   

Let me expand on what Ken said.  It's not so much the trailer connectors cooroding, but disinterating and short circuiting - that's the fire hazard. 
The rerouting of the amps from the alternator are changed from a wiring run of about 13 feet to a couple of inches!!

About where to order a upgrade kit? 
Kev as far as I'm concerned you don't need to order a kit.  Solder or butt splice the wires, connect a short piece of #4 wire from the alternator to the starter solenoid, order a voltmeter from Teleflex and follow the instructions for the Wiring Harness Upgrade already posted on our C34 web site. 
Simple as that!!

[Stu Jackson]

Part of these discussions included the routing of the alternator output (AO).  Some still have it going from the AO to the starter and back to the 1-2-B switch, while many of us have rerouted the AO directly to the house bank.

Here's a discussion of the "why and how" of those two choices, also in the "Electrical 101" topic:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4949.msg30101.html#msg30101

[day dreamer]

hi

Oh dear ...  pardon my ignorance but this critical upgrade has me worried !!    and after spending 90 mins searching the site I m  still not 100 % clear --

I suspect I am not the only one  ...   it seems different people recommend different solutions ...  often written in technical jargon by electricians.

I liked Ken s attempt to explain what to do but am still not clear ...   ok eliminate the trailer 8 pin connectors . but splice which wires together ??

and placing a new ?   wire from alternator to ...

some say buy an upgrade --

was the original wiring that bad ???

please can someone put this important subject in plain step by step english for those who studied humanities or other ?

eg

1   the problem is  .....   the 8 pin connectors ?   bad quality ?     the current route ?   whatever it might be --
2   one solution is     a)             second    b)           third    c)   


txs in advance ---

Ian

[Stu Jackson]

Ian,

I can't help you learn how to do electrical things or to become an electrician.  No one on this or any other website can do that.

Please, re-read (MULTIPLE TIMES IF NECESSARY) THE CRITICAL UPGRADES topic (all three pages) which explains WHAT needs to be done, WHY it needs to be done, and HOW different skippers have done it.

When you replace the trailer connectors, you connect, individually, wire to wire.

If you want to learn more about Electrical systems, read the "Electrical 101" topic which is part of the "101 Topic" sticky and includes links to good books for you to learn.  Or hire a qualified boat electrician (few and far between unless you live near Maine Sail).

None of us were "born" electricians, but many of us learned how to do it.

Good luck, keep coming back with more specific questions, and we can point out helpful hints, most usually where we wrote it up before, but "ya never know" maybe you'll have anew one!

[Stu Jackson]

1.  please can someone put this important subject in plain step by step english for those who studied humanities or other ?

2.  1   the problem is  .....   the 8 pin connectors ?   bad quality ?     the current route ?   whatever it might be --
2   one solution is     a)             second    b)           third    c)  

This is my second reply to your post, Ian.  WADR:

1.  Read the Critical Upgrades.  It explains, in three or four posts on that topic, on different pages, what and why, including links.  It ain't that hard.

2.  Read this on page 3 of the Critical Upgrades:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg44056.html#msg44056 It sure seems to explain things, step-by-step.

Perhaps you should do what I did.  Read the stuff, and PRINT IT OUT.  Then read them a few times.  I find it harder to understand by just reading on a computer screen, 90 minutes ? - I spent a month reading this stuff when it first "came out" to understand it!!! - but I'm a "book" guy from way back.  Maybe that'll help you.

Then, instead of us rewriting what we've already done, from multiple sources (me, Ron, Maine Sail, Ken, others...) you can begin to ask more specific questions, because we feel we've already pretty well covered the subject.

[mainesail]

Ron,

Don't worry I have been barking at this dog for a while now too.

It's funny that a few times now I have picked up a new customer who doesn't really know who I am because I was word of mouth marketed (I don't advertise).

They then go on and on about this web site that showed them how to do all kinds of boat projects and they start showing me projects they've done and completed....  I listen, "wow", "interesting", "sounds cool" etc, and hand them my card and say; "Is this by any chance the web site?"...

It is then they get really red in the face when I open the engine bay to find the old style alt bracket, alternator run through the ammeter and a partially melted trailer plug....

"Yeah well that one is on my list.."

That "list" item should be #1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forget new sails, the new "skipper" hat, forget that new shiny anchor, new cockpit cushions, forget it all until you FIX THE FREAKING WIRING !!!!!

I know of at least three boats that have burned to the waterline over what is suspected to be this PROBLEM....

Sometimes people just don't get the seriousness of these warnings until the boat is a charred to the boot stripe and they owe more for burning down the marina than they are insured for.......

Here's my short OH, OH identification list:

*If your boat has an ammeter in the engine panel - You WILL be in trouble!

*If your alt output does not go straight to the batteries or the starter - You WILL be in trouble!

*If your engine still has the trailer connectors - You WILL be in trouble.

*If your M-25 has the old alternator bracket - You WILL be in trouble!

*If your start button circuit still has the original in-line fuse near the starter - You WILL be in trouble!

Perhaps some have missed this:


Universal Engine Wiring Harness Upgrade
http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/universal_wiring_harness_upgrade

I honestly thought that by 2014 I would not see ANY MORE boat with these issues but I still repair 3-5 per year on average!!!!! (head bonk)

[scotty]

Ron,  Thank you (once again) for your efforts to inform people about the need to address the problems of the ammeter on the engine panel, and the need to replace the wiring harness plug.  It may seem that you are hitting your head on a wall, but really you are helping all the new owners, and yes, even some long-time owners that have "missed" the point.  Please keep up the good work.  You, Stu, and several others are the backbone that has made this site very important for many of us.  Thank you all.

Ian,  Don't be to unsure about making the improvements.  Yes, there are several alternatives, but they are each rather easy to do.  Any of the alternatives are better than doing nothing.  When I did mine it was interesting that the harness literally crumbled apart in my hands.  Wow.  Wow!!   I muddled along (I soldered and heat shrunk) and it really was not a difficult job.  I just took it step by step. There is a very interesting post on another forum, Sailboat Owners.com, on how to make connections.  One in particular, by Main Sail, goes into great detail about what to do, and what not to.  Thanks Main Sail.  He gives a great explaination on "crimp and solder" connections.  Check out post #23.  the topic is called "Soldering Wire Connections"

 http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?t=158823&page=2

then look at how to crimp (again from Main Sail - thanks!!!):

http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination

When I did the job it took a bit of time to get ready and several times I asked for advice from this website.  The job itself went really fast - about 2 hours.  (My alternator bracket was OK and the Ammeter had been removed by a PO).  If you are not comfortable doing this job, a professional should look at this as a relatively simple job.  Either way, I'm sure you can get this done.  Good luck,

Scotty

[Clay Greene]

Ian,

Your solution should be pretty straight-forward. With a 1990 boat, you should have a voltmeter at the engine panel in the cockpit so no ammeter to worry about. You also should have a jump wire from the alternator output to the starter solenoid. This routes the alternator charge to the batteries through the same wire that runs from the common post on the 1-2-B master switch on the main AC/DC panel in the salon. Not the best way to do it, but not something you need to immediately replace.

What you need to focus on is the method of connecting the wires running from the engine to the engine panel. These are the black plastic "trailer" plugs that are the source of the fire concern. This is no joke, either - ours were partially melted when we replaced them. You have (at least) three options for doing so: a) use term strips (some mount them in the engine compartment but others leave loose (or in a container) to mitigate vibration loosening the connections), b) connect each of the wires together, either by soldering and heat shrinking or using heat shrink butt splices, or c) run new wires between the engine panel and the engine. We chose option "c", even though it was the most time-consuming because we did not like the condition of some our wiring and panel connections.

Once that critical issue is resolved, you might also consider installing the glow plug solenoid to improve the pre-heating efficiency of the glow plugs and running a new wire from the alternator output to the batteries to improve recharging. Those are good projects to do (and pretty easy with the instructions on this website) but failing to do them is not a safety issue like the wiring harness.

Good luck (from one fellow Humanities major to another).

[Stu Jackson]

Ian,

Good morning.   

We do mean well, even if sometimes we sound like engineers.   

But Clay is right, he didn't know anymore than any of us did when we started.

You WILL get there.

We promise, maybe even in spite of us!