Lower cost generator

[Roland Gendreau]

I've had 2 issues that have prevented me from buying a Honda generator- one is that the EU2000 will not fit in the cockpit port side locker in my 1992 model C34, the other is the price is steep. 

Harbor Freight now has a 1600 watt unt for $299 that is 14.5 inches high, which would fit in the port side locker.

The ad is here: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=97079

The manual for it is here: http://www.harborfreight.com/manuals/97000-97999/97079.pdf

The ad says it is a Greyhound, and the manual says Chicago Electric. I am pretty sure it is a Chinese knockoff, but the price and packaging hit the mark.

With a 1600 watt output, it is just enough to power the water heater in theory.

Let me know your thoughts.

Roland Gendreau
Gratitude #1183

[Bobg]

Your right Roland, lots of choices out there, I couldn't find the db rating on the harbor freight one, it does weigh twice as much as the Honda 1000, lot of those less expensive models really push it when it comes to wattage rating.  The guy in the boat next to me has a 1000 he bought at fleet farm for about $140.00, it works, lot heavier and louder than my Honda but with his budget he wouldn't have anything if not for the cheaper one.  We compare in the marina and the honda always wins, albeit not considering price. here is another idea that looks good  www.bottomlinetrading.com/DS1000P3.html A nice looking gen that fairly inexpensive.  Dimension wise not good though   Bob

[Bobg]

Another thought, if you have a friend you sail with and you both have 1000 watt generators, you can get a parallel wiring kit for about 50 bucks and double your wattage for those rare times you need it.  I only  know about the Honda units.  "and" I really haven't done it yet, just read about it.  I am on a constant quest for ways to make ICE, I love my beer cold.  Lake superior is just about ice water anyway, so I am half way there.  Cheers   

[Stu Jackson]

Roland, I must start by saying that I do NOT have a generator.  While there are many reasons for this, that is not the purpose of this thread so I won't belabor this reply with a discussion of electrical systems (which will make lots of people very happy! ), but it's important that you know that.

In all of my years of experience on this board, and in reading and contributing to the www.catalinaowners.com Message Board and some others, there have ONLY been very good things said about the Honda generators, both the 1000 and 2000 size models. They work and they seem to be the quietest units available.  Sound is a particularly sensitive subject, as you can well imagine.

OTOH, there has nothing but POOR things said about ALL other generators for boats in that size and class range.  The others all have been reported to perform poorly, not provide the rated output, fail to start, behave erratically, develop sound levels significantly higher than published in the manufacturer's literature, and generally stink. People have either returned them while some have been "stuck" with them.

It does really seem that you get what you pay for.

This recent thread discussed two models and a good source for a Honda eu2000 with what is reported (I can't confirm, I'm not in the market for one) to be a good price: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4861.0.html

As far as storage is concerned, this has been discussed many times here.  The size, as you note, precludes locker storage.  Ideas that have been contributed here, and on the co.com and C36 'sites, include: on the stern perch, underneath one of the perch seats, and down below under the saloon table strapped to the mast or mast step after exhausting all gasoline fuel from the generator.  Some have built enclosures for them for storage forward of the mast on deck.  One thread discusses a Honda "marine cover" that may still be available; I don't know about this options personally - check the Honda website (linked on the recent thread mentioned in the paragraph above).

The only reported alternative for a standalone generator is the Honda eu1000 model which fits in the C34 port locker but does not offer the power for heating hot water.

The only other option is to build one into the boat, as compared to the portable Hondas.  I recall a discussion on the C36 'board about a Panda being installed permanently.

I know there are a tremendous number of threads that discuss "generator" so it is inappropriate and quite frankly unfair to suggest a search on that word.    However, some creativity on searches would be in order - you might try these phrases, either with or without the word "generator" --  Harbor Freight, Chinese, Chicago Electric, Chinese knockoff, knockoff -- I think you get the drift (these will, of course, bring up your thread, but perhaps others).

I have not looked at your links, because ALL of our reports indicate that nothing, simply nothing, works like the Hondas (insert disclaimer that I don't represent Honda and I have no family members who work there, no stock, etc., etc.   ).  

If I come across some of the threads that I recall or "stumble" across as I wander around the internet today, I'll add to this thread.

For starters for your additional searching, Hal Devera was a registrant and C34IA member and former C34 owner who contributed to many generator discussions and owned an eu2000i.  You can do an advanced search on "generator" using Hal's user name "hdevera", or you can go to Members at the head of this 'board  and find his name and read all of his posts.  One good one [Power Share] that explains his detailed understanding of generator and boat electrical systems is this:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1474.0.html & to give you an idea of the level of his contributions.  

Another that discusses overall charging systems and fridges and ice and extended uses of energy for cruising is this:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,1843.0.html Read or re-try the subjects included in the links on this and on others of the posts you uncover in your searches.  Please report any good ones you find when you get back to us here.

Ron Hill has also written quite a lot about his Honda 1000 which could also bring up more issues for you to review.

[Ron Hill]

Roland : Simply put - you get what you pay for from Harbor Freight.
Honda makes one of the best aircooled engines on the market - I believe even better than Briggs & Stanton !!  You can always count on a Honda to start and they are VERY quiet !! 

Get that low cost gen set and give us a report in a year or so.  A thought

[Roland Gendreau]

Thanks for the feedback.   None of the alternate storage ares for the unit are as attractive as the port side locker. 

Stu, before I did the posting above I googled for info on this generator using every keyword you suggested and some others, and found zero information other than the harbor freight ad and manual. The noise level spec is not in the manual.

Since HF's return policy is 30 days, no questions asked, I might just purchase one for testing purposes.  Unfortunately, since we don't launch until the first week of May, I couldn't do a test of the unit in actual cruising service until a couple months from now at the earliest.   

So if the units are still available in May, I'll pick one up and provide some feedback.

Roland Gendreau

Gratitude #1183

[Stu Jackson]

...before I did the posting above I Googled for info on this generator using every keyword you suggested and some others, and found zero information...

So if the units are still available in May, I'll pick one up and provide some feedback.

Roland,

I actually didn't suggest you do a search in my first sentence ending with  , and tried hard not to, but you know me!  But then I guess I did, sorry.   

I did, as promised, spend a lot of time looking at each and every one of Michael McLeod's (Hali #1352 Vancouver, BC) postings 'cuz I thought he'd discussed this issue.  I found nada.  But then I finally broke down and did a search on generator.  The fourth one down on that simple search is "Taking One for the Team (Honda generators)" from Steve Dolling, (coincidentally also from Vancouver, BC, #802, Black Dragon) here:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4394.0.html  See the whole thread, but Reply #22 on page 2 starts the "end game." [This is the one I'd remembered reading and had been  looking for in my first post on this thread.]

I understand it's your $$, and it's not my business to get into yours.  That said, "if it was my boat (and my $$)," and I was looking for a portable generator, I simply wouldn't bother with what you are considering.  We have had over 20 years of experience on this message board, website and other resources on the internet about boats and portable generators.  Almost exclusively, the Honda generators have been rated superior to ALL other brands.  And many of the other brands, as reported by Steve, simply do not work.  We have also reported and read that many of the other brands are made by the same overseas company and simply labeled with different brands for resale (i.e., Canadian Tire, Harbor Freight, Joe Schmoe, you name it).

If I went to Consumer Reports looking for Product X and there were eight items listed and only one was found to be superior/excellent/or even acceptable and all of the others were "do not buy" recommendations, I would not even consider the other seven.

Your issues are not unusual.  They are simply the two choices of size, both physical for storage and amperage for service of either charging only (eu1000) or charging and hot water production (eu2000 - either model).  The remaining choice is to find the best price for the model you choose.  That's why I posted this, even though I am not in the market for a generator.  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4861.0.html

It's your boat, your choice and your $$.  But given everything we've learned over the years, and given Steve's report of pretty much exactly your presentation, I seriously wonder why you would even consider buying a "knock off" with all the hassles that it entails:  purchase, eventual if not certain disappointment, return hassles if even possible, and finally purchase of the originally recommended product. 

By then you might even give up and go solar!

I consider this whole "What Generator Should I Buy?" issue pretty much like our warnings about the original Wiring Harnesses.  We keep saying they are a fire hazard and every once in awhile someone asks about it and says they haven't done it yet.  Guess they're just plain lucky.  One can read the reports, understand the issues, learn about others' experiences both good & bad, and absorb the conclusions and recommendations.  And continue to ignore them and reinvent the wheel.  The whole purpose of this and other boards is to help folks avoid that very sequence of events.

[Roland Gendreau]

Stu,

Thanks for the feedback. In answer to your question of why would I consider buying a knock off?

Quite simply because no other unit meets the 2 main requirements:

1 - Unit must fit into port side locker
2 - Unit must have capacity to power the hot water heater.

Much as we would like it to be otherwise, no Honda (or any other unit other than the HF unit ) meets these requirements.

My guess is that others who have the same requirements would be interested in knowing whether this knock off is the same as, better or worse than other knock offs.

Roland Gendreau
Gratitude#1183

[Stu Jackson]

Roland, thanks for the clarification.  I wish you all the best with your selection and we look forward to the detailed report, with pictures, of course!     All the best, Stu

PS - added later

Given Steve's experiences, you may want to consider doing some more "homework" between now and when you buy the unit.  Consider finding a way to do a load test on the unit before you spend the time to take it down to your boat.  A 1500 watt load is all you need.

[Stu Jackson]

Roland,

Another thought occurred to me last night.  You may also want to consider finding out if the engine and the generator of your proposed new unit are the same engine and generator as the one the Steve reported on.  At least some fact gathering couldn't hurt in the time you have between now and May.  Again, good luck with your idea, because if it does work, then we'll all have a learned a very important lesson: there are options out there. Sure hope so!  All the best, Stu

[waterdog]

I think Roland is looking at a fundamentally different generator than the one I tested.  At 66 pounds, its a different beast.  For $300, it's worth a try.   

I was so damaged by the whole generator experience that I can't even bring myself to buy a Honda now.  Instead, I have 390W of solar panels.  They weigh about the same as a generator.   I can't fit them in the lazarette.  But they run very quiet and are good on fuel...

Gotta finish the last few cushions so I can start the next project...

[David Arnold]

Roland,
As I think you know, I have the EU2000 Honda and you are more than welcome to borrow it and try it on your boat's topsides before you order the one you are considering to see if that's an option.  Personally the capacity of the 1000 would be more than enough power for us about 90% of the time.  The only time we need the boost is when using the microwave, the water heater or Sandy's hair dryer (all rare occasions).  With your boat on a slip I would think the only time you would need the power for the water heater would be on a cruise and then the engine should be heating the water for you.  If the 1000 watt Honda fits in your locker I would suggest you go for that.  The weight of that knock off unit will get old very fast!

[ellispe]

Roland,

I have used generators on my boats for many years.  One thing I can assure you is that with the exception of the Honda EU series most all low cost generators make tons of noise. The harbor freight will be so loud you will hate yourself more than the other boats around you will hate you. In addation to the EU series being quiet, the power it produces is Clean power and will not harm any of your electronics, It also has the economy mode that will throttle back to lower rpm's as needed based on your power needs.  In this mode a tank will run a very long time.

I am not sure if the eu1000 or 2000 is enough for your power needs or if it will fit but trust me when I say in the long run you will be very happy with the hondas. If you check Craigslist you can find them used in the $750.00 range.

Good luck with the hunt.