Drilling into my rudder

[Mark G]

Regarding rust weeping where the post enters the top of my rudder: I've read your advice, reviewed the tech notes, printed off Gerry Douglas's diagram of the rudder for my '91. Before I drill a hole in it this weekend to let out any water and allow it to dry, any final words of wisdom?

My reading of the info seems to indicate I am in need of a fix - dry it, fill it, seal it - versus a new rudder. Fresh water boat on Lake Michigan.

Thanks. --Mark

[Footloose]

Mark,

I did what you are considering doing last year.  I still had a small amount of water coming out this spring at launch and I am in the process again the year.  I am having the yard pull the rudder out.  I will bring it home and put it next to the furnace after I drill into it.  The plan is to reinstall in the spring.  According to the surveyor I only have a small are of water But I am beginning to wonder if I need a new rudder.  Also drill multiple holes.

[Mark G]

Dave: I plan to follow the instructions in tech notes to open it at top first. Once dry, I plan to fill it from inside the tube and seal the top where the tube enters. I really don't want to spend the money on a new rudder. Since it only weeps from the top and the rudder is unblemished, it seems like a good plan. I just get a little seepage.

Stu referred me to tech notes: Feb 1992, May 1993, May 1997.

[Footloose]

Mark,

I also plan to seal the top of the rudder this year.  When I still had water seeping out this past spring I got discouraged and didn't seal the top of the tube.  Now I wish I had.  I am taking it home so that it doesn't freeze up and will continue to seep out in January, February and March.  Last year when I went to the boat in the middle of winter I thought I had a cure.  I am planning to drill several 1/4 inch holes in the area of the moisture.  If it really dries out I am planning to do the elliptical modification in the basement.

[Mark G]

Dave: I have a wing keel. Can I get the rudder off while the boat is on the cradle, or do I have to get it when the boat is lifted in the crane? Was it difficult to remove the rudder?

[Ron Hill]

Mark : It's not difficult to remove the rudder from a C34.  I believe from your year you have a walk thru transom?!
Remove the emergency tiller cap, loosen then remove the steering cables and steering quadrant. 
The rudder will slide down, but you MAY have to lift the hull a little to get the rudder column to clear the hull(depends how high you are in the cradle).   
You can dry out the rudder while it's on the boat IF the rudder is in the sunlight part of the day.  A thought.   

[Footloose]

Mark,

As Ron said you are probally going to have to lift the craddle.  Another option is to dig a hole beneath the rudder.  Obviously check with the yard before doing this.  I have a MK I fin keel.

[Mark G]

I walked up to my boat after one week on the hard. No rust on the rudder. I pulled the emergency tiller cover in the walk-through transom and there was water in the rudder tube, but at a level too low to come out at the top of the rudder as it had before. Hmm. I was able to rig a hand pump with an extended hose to get all the water out. At this point, I think I will wait to see if more water enters the tube, assuming it is in the rudder. I plan to rig a hair dryer with an extended hose to dry out the tube. A yard guy suggested acetone after that.

Could the water be coming in over the open end of the rudder tube under the plate for the emergency tiller? The area under the plate was full last year and had about a third of an inch this year. I'm thinking that water would get into the tube when heeled if the area under the plate was full.

[Ron Hill]

Mark : There "could" be from a poor tiller cap seal, but if you had rust - then you know where it's coming from, so don't fool yourself!
I'd first use alcohol as it assimilates water and then acetone to really clean it out with rags.  You'll still need to seal the area where the column enters the rudder build up.   

[Mark G]

Ron, yes, the water I pumped out was rusty.

I have a rigger at the yard who has done this with other boats. He said he uses a Dremel tool to gouge out the area where the post enters the rudder. I'll dry it over the winter (hair dryer and natural air and make the fix before we launch.

You and this site are an incredible resource. Thanks.

[Jeff Kaplan]

mark, i didn't see the year of your boat listed. when i bought #219, just finished 2nd full season, the surveyor told me i had problems with the rudder because when they pulled her out for survey, rusty water started seeping out. he told me to watch this after next season, and eventually i would need to replace it.  spoke to gerry douglass and he told me how to seal the top to prevent further penetration. fortunately for me, at the end of last season i dropped the rudder for inspection and found corrosion around the post where it enters the rudder.i call kent at tech support at catalina and e-mailed pics of this and he said,time to get a new rudder. look very closely at that area. if you see any corrosion, call up catalina and order a new one. aside from the cost, what a difference it made in performance. good luck...jeff

[Rick Johnson]

Any chance that the rudder can be dropped while the boat is still in the water?  It appears that if I drain the aft water tank and perhaps the fuel tank, the stern would be high enough to not worry about taking on water.  I was thinking I could put some straps around the rudder to hold her in place while disconnecting everything and then slowly lower the rudder below the boat.  Any idea how much the rudder weighs?

The problem here at the Lake is that the water level is so low, no one can haul their boats right now and this may get worse until the spring.  Bummer!

[Ted Pounds]

Rick,
The short is answer is "Yes".  See the following link for more info:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=2185.0  The rudder weighs about 80 to 90 pounds.  It may even be buoyant in water.  I could handle mine by myself though it's a bit bulky and easier to handle with 2 people.

[Michael Algase]

While not for this particular boat, I have vivid recollections of when a fellow boater attempted to do exactly what is being described here.  What went wrong was that as the rudder tried to float toward the surface (remember the buoyant force increases as the depth increases), the rudder tilted , and as the blade moved toward the surface, the end of the post was still in the sleeve, and ended up breaking the sleeve off.  Rapid movement of weight to the bow to get the broken surface out of the water, and a slow ride to the marina to get to a lift was what resulted.

I doubt the sleeve in our 34's is that weak, but the thought of getting it wedged when most of the way out could be disconcerting.  How do you drive it down once it gets wedged?  Also not sure how you hold it with straps as it comes out if you're not in the water with it.  A small line through a hole in the end of the shaft could be used as a witness line, then captured with a boat hook as it floats to the surface (if it floats to the surface - if not, who dives in after it?).

I'm with Steve.  Use a lift, or dig the hole.  Saving the cost of a lift and risking the problems that go along with working while the boat is in the water doesn't seem worth it.  If there is no alternative, I'd do it with someone in the water to be sure controlling that beast avoids damage to other parts of the boat.

I'm a pretty ambitious engineer, but not sure I'd jump in on this type of changeout - no pun intended.

Michael

[Mark G]

Jeff: My boat is a '91, #1166. I can't really get the rudder off now that the boat is in the cradle and on asphalt for the winter. I will call Catalina, though. The weeping I had last year was all from the top where the post enters. I like to think that I can dry it out, fill it and seal it. I know the elliptical rudder improves performance on the wing keel, but I would rather not spend the $1,500 I have heard it costs.