Winterizing

[Robert Mann]

Being the worrier I am, I have winterized here in sunny Georgia.

Does any on e have an opinion on the issue of pump impellers with contact to anti-freeze?  I have used regular Prestone automotive anti-freeze in the raw water side of the engine and the head.  In the fresh water system I have used Prestone, pink, potable water anti-freeze sold for RV and marine use.

Any thoughts?

[Steve Hansen]

Hello Bob,

I have heard that antifreeze is not good for the impellers. I've never tested this because I remove the impeller every season. Some have suggested replacing the impeller every season. I don't run my engine alot so I opt for every other. Also, did you mean to say automotive antifreeze in the fresh water system and RV antifreeze in the raw water?

Steve

[Jim Price]

Just an opinion Bob but I would never use automotive anti-freeze anywhere except in the closed engine cooling system.  The pink stuff is good enough for all other places - it will prevent freezing to about 25 below I think, maybe colder. 

In addition to the impeller issue using auto anti-freeze, I am not sure what that stuff will do to your head seals and pump.  Plus if it is going into your waste tank, you gotta get rid of it somehow.  I would be more concerned with the head itself. 

Others with more info than me may help here but you may want to be prepared to flush the head and raw water side with a lot of water followed by re-treating with the pink stuff.   

[Steve Hansen]

Bob,

I understood you as saying you put ethylene glycol into fresh water cooling system and propylene glycol in the raw system. After reading Jim's post, I see you meant putting ethylene glycol into raw system and head. I would defer to Jim's post and remove the ethylene glycol.

Steve

[Footloose]

You are going to have to get the ethylene glycol out of the raw water system before you launch.  My understanding is that is is illegal to dischage it into any body of water and if you start up with this in the raw water side you will do exactly that.  The fines for this stuff tend to be pretty steep.  As was said above you also need to dispose of it properly.

As far as the impeller be attacked; hoses are rubber and they do OK.  On my boat I have left it in.  I may charge my mind in the spring.  Time is the ultimate teller of truth.

[Ron Hill]

Bob : I don't think that either ethylene or propylene glycol will hurt the impeller or the "rubber" parts in the head, as they are both used in environments that have "rubber" gaskets/O rings/seals (in automotive engines).  The problem is in the disposal of the ethylene as "Footloose" pointed out.

What I do is take the pencil Zn out of the heat exchanger, remove the impeller from the raw water pump and take off the drive belt.  That way:
1. Most all of the winterizing anti freeze in the raw water system is drained (except for the muffler - you could also do that).  I wait until spring to put a new Zn in the exchanger( measured and cut to length).
2. I remove the impeller from the raw water pump housing.  Why leave it all "scrunched up" all winter?  I place the impeller (still on the shaft) in a plastic cup after I spray it with silicone (to keep it limber).  I put that cup under the engine till I install it in spring.
3. The drive belt is placed on top of the engine.  Why let it tensioned all winter?  In the spring I "reverse" the belt (odd years the writing on the belt is aft) so that the drive belt gets EVEN wear (just in case the alternator isn't perfectly aligned).

It all gets reassembled in the spring, right after I suck out all of the transmission fluid(filled to the top for winter to combat condensation & keep the fwd bearing wet) and refill to the the correct level. 

I believe that everything that I've written above is already posted on this Board and in the FAQs & Projects sites!!      

[Roc]

Bob,
I recently read on CatalinaOwners.com about a similar question and the expert in marine sanitation, Peggie Hall, said that regular automotive anti freeze (ethylene glycol) is harmfull to the rubber parts within the head system.  I never heard of putting automotive anti freeze to winterize the raw water cooling system.  I use the same Propylene Glycol (pink stuff) in the engine raw water system as what I use for all the other places where water is present (head, A/C, fresh water, bilge pump...etc).  I buy the -50 type.

About the impeller, I also do what Ron does, take it out so the vanes aren't left bent all winter long.  The Mack Boring Co. (Yanmar dealers) seminar I attended several years back suggested to immerse the impeller in olive oil (vegetable based vs. petroleum based) so the rubber doesn't degrade.  I inspect the vanes for any cracking and will re-use it if everything looks good.  I'll change it after three years of use, even if it looks good, since I'm guessing there must be some 'wear' to it and the material must not be as elastic as new.

[Ron Hill]

Guys : I called  ITT Jabsco and confirmed what I said in my above post.  NONE of the glycol products will damage the "rubber" parts in their heads.
Don't know where Peggy Hall got her info, but ethylene glycol (Prestone/Zerox/etc.) was all we had to use for winterizing in the 1970s and early 1980's. I never had any damage to any of my heads.
Again it is illegal to dispose of ethylene glycol (quote from the bottle) "into storm sewers, septic systems or onto the ground"!!

It's an"old wives tale" that automotive antifreeze will harm/destroy the rubber parts in a head!!  My old saying holds, "Talk to the manufacturer(of a product) and you're talking to the horses mouth; get it off the internet and you don't know which end of the horse in speaking"!!

Use propylene glycol and your head will not freeze. Also, you won't have to worry how to dispose of it in spring !! 

[Robert Mann]

Dear All

Sorry for lack of reply, been travelling in parts remote.

When using Ethlyene Glycol in the raw water system, it has to be captured during re-comissioniing.  Same technique Ron uses, plus large son at the stern with bucket under the exhaust (don't do this yourself you tend to get splatered!).  

The subject of head winterizing is based on some old experience.  When I first winterized the head on my Ericson,1988 vintage, I used the pink RV antifreeze, during the recomissioning the head failed to function.  On inspection i discovered that the Joker valve sealing lips had been attacked to the degree that they leaked.  The only thing that could have done this was the AF.  Now bear in mind this is 1989 or 1990 and the anti freeze and the Joker may well be of different materials than those used today.  Since then I have used automotive AF in the head intake and bowl parts, with as empty a tank as possible. My lack of desire to do more work on the head system than absolutely necessary has made me gun shy to revert to Pink AF.

That said, if there are no issues on todays equipment then the potable pink AF is the way to go.

Bob

[Roc]

Bob,
How old was the joker valve??  If it was several years old, it probably failed due to normal wear and tear.  It's a good idea to change the rubber parts (a rebuild kit can be purchased) at least every few years, more often if your on your boat more than just weekends, this way the system will always function (preventative maintenance).  If not, you might be stuck not being able to flush at the most inopportune time!