Salt water in bilge

[sailingdolphin]

There seems to be salt water collecting in the bilge.  About an inch every 12 hours. The location is right where the bilge pump is, the chamber in front of the mast and the chamber aft of the bilge pump.  

Where can it be coming from?  Should I be concerned?

Thanks,
Doug

[sailingdolphin]

I forgot.  1986 Hull # 71.  Also I have not run the engine at all and it still collects.  I dont see any thru-hulls that are open

[Ted Pounds]

I think you should be concerned. :eek:  No water should collect when at rest and it's not raining.  Have you looked at the packing gland?  If the packing is old and worn it can leak even with the engine off.  If that's the culprit a few turns on the nut should stop it.  I would reccomend eventually replacing it it with the Gore dripless packing.  Another possability is a cracked fitting.  Try drying around all the thru-hulls and see if you can spot it.  I have to run, I'm sure folks on this board will have some other ideas.  Good Luck.

Ted

[Stu Jackson]

Donna & Doug

Please use the search engines on the message board and the website.

Try 'bilge>', 'bilge water', or any other combination you can think of.  Also try 'keel bolts'.

This subject has been extensively covered.

[John Gardner]

Don't forget to check the speed and depth transducers - they may be badly fitted, and there was an item I read somewhere recently (this message board?)indicating that the speed transducer itself might come apart.

[sailingdolphin]

It appears to be coming in from two places.

First it is coming in from the packing gland
one drop every 2.5 seconds with the engine off.
same amount with the engine on.

Second the approx. 4 in house conected to the packing gland  is leaking.  There are four house clamps attached to it.  Three of them were busted. The fourth when I went to replace, it just busted right off.

Then a nice stream of water was coming in.  I couldn't get the clamp to go underneath the hose and it was coming in good. Thank god for the bilge pump. I finally, after many attempts, was able to stick a screwdriver underneath and pry it up.  I then stuck a big wrench under the screw driver to keep it up and I was able to get one of the two hose clamps on, tighten it down and it stopped. the other two hose clamps were not a problem. The fourth clamp farthest aft seemed impossible.

I still have the packing gland problem.  To me it looks like there are two nuts there.  I can't quite figure out how to tighten it.
Do I have to loosen one of the nuts to tighten the other?

[Stu Jackson]

Stuffing Box and Stern Gland

Donna & Doug

You need to do a bit of research.  We understand the boat is new to you, and you'll have lots of questions.  The best way to get help is to work on it yourself for a while by reading, reading, reading, trying it on the boat and then asking questions if you don't understand something.

This C34 website is HUGE, but the questions you now have, and will have for the next six to nine months, have all been asked and aswered (simply because we've all been there).

The search engines are extremely helpful for specific research.  As noted, there are two separate ones, one for the website and one for the message board.

Please spend some (more?) time familiaring yourself with the website along with your boat, and I believe you'll find a lot of answers to your questions, and you can then refine your questions to areas more specific.

I am not trying to dissuade you from posting, only to emphasize that much of what you are trying to learn is already available in 'THE BOOK,' this existing website, which is also on the CD-ROM for Association Members.

The Manual, recently posted on the website, has a very good description of the stern tube and packing gland.  If you don't have a manual, I urge you to download it, print it out and pick up a lot of information.

Best regards,

Stu

PS

1.  try searches under the two topics at the head of this post, and also 'bilge' and 'bilge water' and 'keel bolts'  (didn't we cover this earlier this week?)

2.  Try this link:

http://archive.sailboatowners.com/archive/archresults.tpl?ssite=CO&fno=21&start=1&keyword=stuffing+box&model=none&forum=none&pr=p%2Cr&_ptitle=ptitle+rtitle&andor=ws&srt=pdate

It incorporates references back to this site from another resource about this topic.

3.  Also try Steve's Weblog:  
http://c34.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=329609511&f=829605811&m=972602911

Proves you're not alone  ;)

[This message was edited by Stu Jackson #224 1986 "Aquavite" on July 21, 2003 at 12:53 PM.]

[Ted Pounds]

Stu,

"When a man is drowning, it is not the time to teach him how to swim."   ;)

Donna & Doug,

One  of the nuts, the thin one, is a lock nut.  loosen it (actually by turning it clockwise, facing aft, as it's behind the packing nut) and then you will be able to tighten the big one (Also by turning clockwise) which has the packing inside it.  Then tighten the lock nut so the the big one won't come loose.  You should end up with no drips when static and a drop or two a minute when underway (if you have regular flax packing).  Good luck.

Ted

[Mike Smith]

Donna and Doug -
Have you recently purchased your boat?  If so, you need to get a copy of the survey that was done prior to the purchase and go over every item on it.  The fact that three of four hose clamps on the shaft were trashed means that you need to immediately check every other hose clamp on the boat - today if not sooner.  My advice is to put off any other projects until you have your salt water intrusion problem licked.

Mike

Mike and Jan Smith
S/V Breezer
www.mikejansmith.com

[Tom P, IMPULSE #233, '86]

Ditto those comments from Ted and Ron...

From Ted:
"Stu, When a man is drowning, it is not the time to teach him how to swim."  I'm sure you mean well Stu, but the search feature can be difficult and VERY time consuming...A short post with a question, and short response from one of the regular members (with the link) is much more efficient in a pinch...

And from Ron:
"If you're in salt water I'm sure that the locknut and the gland nut are corroded together. Dry them off and try some "liquid wrench". Remember that both nuts are bronze, so if you play KING KONG you'll round off the edges, especially the lock nut."

Hopefully Ron's advice will work, but I have also found that liquid wrench wasn't enough...Also keep in mind that most shaft seal wrenches (if you are using one) are not made very subtanially; I've broken a few...

I always dry everything off, wire brush (using a tooth brush style) the exposed threads, then use the liquid wrench...If it still won't budge with moderate pressure, I use a small hammer and carefully tap the lock-nut flats in the loosening direction...Tap on the flats, favoring the direction which will cause the nut to loosen...
And like Ron also said, each nut is made of bronze...The hammer will cause dents and dings...Many softer hits minimizes this damage and seems to work better than a few hard hits...

Good Luck,
Tom

[sailingdolphin]

I want to thank all of you for your help.

I do appologize for my rookie ignorance and you are right I was drowning.

I slept on the boat last night and to work off today.  I was worried.  I got the packing nut to stop leaking but there was water coming from the hose. I replaced all four hose clamps since three of them were broken.  Surprise after I did that more water was coming in.  About a 1/4" stream. filling up the bilge every 5 to 10 minutes.

That was it I packed up my tools fired up the engine and went straight to the yard. Luckily he fit me in and pulled the boat right away.  At first he said next tuesday.

Anyway the shaft from the outside looks straight.  He thinks it may be the fiberglass tube is cracked.  He won't be able to look at it until Friday.

The good news my new, to me, boat will not sink on land.  

The bad news this could cost a couple grand if they have to put in a new shaft and re-glass a new fiberglass tube.

I am definitely going to put in a new packing gland and nut.

Any thoughts?  What do you think of a dripless?

Thanks,
Doug

[Stu Jackson]

Dripless Question

Doug

Glad to hear things are reasonably under control, and that, one way or another, you are still afloat.

You asked about dripless.  At the risk of repeating myself, and now that your boat is safe, so that you're a non-drowning skipper, you must have some time on your hands.

Try the website search engine, and you'll find:

http://c34.org/faq-pages/faq-stuffing-box.html

And please read the references I suggested further up this page.  

What do we think of dripless?

It's been covered in exhaustive detail, as you'll see.  

Your boat, your choice.

Good luck with the shaft log.

Stu

[Mike Smith]

Whew!  Sounds like you just made it!  You need to buy a lottery ticket - you are lucky! Don't worry about your lack of knowledge - with this crowd and all their great information you won't stay a rookie for long!  You do have a great opportunity to do a lot of small things to your boat now that it is safe.  You need to check all your through hull fittings, clamps, strainers, and hoses and replace any questionable ones.  You might want to have the yard torque up your keel bolts also - that may be another source of salt water.  Don't worry about spending a little money now - it's better than paying a lot of money later.  Keep us informed of your progress!

Mike and Jan Smith
S/V Breezer
www.mikejansmith.com

[This message was edited by Mike & Jan Smith "Breezer"  '88 #688 on July 24, 2003 at 05:50 AM.]

[Ted Pounds]

Glad to hear you boat is safe.  One of the options not mentioned in Stu's link above is the Gore dripless packing.  It's what I use and I really like it.  At about $15 its cheaper than the moldable suff and also much easier to install (I've tried the moldable stuff).  I would guess that even with shaft replacement and tube work the bill should be under a grand.  Somebody correct if I'm wrong, but I think a new stainless shaft is under $200.  (And if you replace the shaft you want stainless.)  The cutless bearing is $60.  And a yard with the right tools can do the job in less than 2 hours.  That leaves about $500 for glasswork which way more than it should probably cost.  Just a few thoughts...  Good luck.

Ted

[Stu Jackson]

Gre Dripless

Ted, I became aware of the e-marine Gore dripless material after I wrote that FAQ article.  However, it is thoroughly discussed in the earlier references and links in my  'suggested reading' in the earlier links I posted on this thread.

You're right, and it is another, and I understand, less costly option.  Concept is the same.

I believe their email address is in the catalinaowners.com reference, and if not, either someone here will post it or it's easy enough to find w/find and search.

Stu