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Author Topic: Alternator Upgrade  (Read 3118 times)

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mainesail

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #15 on: February 12, 2018, 10:30:35 AM »

Has anyone tried Balmarís serpentine belt pulley conversion? Supposedly more surface area and less slipping. Not cheap but might solve the belt dust problem.
http://www.balmar.net/balmar-technology/altmount-serpentine-conversion-technology/

I've done a couple but not all M-25 series engines are ready for the kit. Some M-25's don't have the three bolt hole crank pulley which is required for the Balmar / AltMount kit..

I sold this package to a member here, or on C-36, can't remember which..

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-Maine Sail
Casco Bay, ME
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dfloeter

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #16 on: February 12, 2018, 06:58:16 PM »

I did the serpentine kit install this winter on my M35a and it went very smoothly.  We did not think the large pulley would fit as is but no machining was needed and everything fit perfectly.
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Dietrich Floeter
Traverse City MI
1996 Catalina 34 TR WK #1317
Universal M35A
Rocna 15

mainesail

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 02:36:00 PM »

Just a heads up on the 8MR external regulation kits..

I know at least one or two from C-34 were interested in a CMI-105-ER or a CMI-90-ER. I have sold five of these alts in the last two days and my inventory on external regulation kits is getting down to crumbs. When the ER kits are gone they are gone unless you can find one on eBay. I grab one every time I see it and they are getting harder and harder to come across.

I am working a source in Europe right now who was supposedly shipped 64 of these kits a while ago. As of yet what they may have left has not been answered.. I am hoping they have a few left.

My sourcing to create this kit on my own is hitting dead ends every day due to what it will cost.. Frustrating to say the least.
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-Maine Sail
Casco Bay, ME
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Jon W

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 08:24:58 PM »

Hopefully you have at least one more 105A to fill the order I just placed.
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

mainesail

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 11:59:43 AM »

Already on its way Jon. I had two built and ready to ship.
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-Maine Sail
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Jon W

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #20 on: February 15, 2018, 02:47:40 PM »

Great thanks. Any suggestions on how to pack to protect while itís in storage?
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

mainesail

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #21 on: February 15, 2018, 03:28:22 PM »

Great thanks. Any suggestions on how to pack to protect while itís in storage?

Best option would be a silica pack and a food sealer, if on-board..... How long will storage be?
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-Maine Sail
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Jon W

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2018, 05:26:39 PM »

Donít know, Iím buying as a ready to go back up if the one on the engine fails. It was on the boat with an internal regulator when I bought it, so I have no idea the age or number of hours it has. I replaced the internal regulator with the external regulator kit and connected to a Balmar MC-614 as part of my electrical upgrade completed in 2016.
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, Manson Supreme 35
San Diego, Ca

KWKloeber

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 09:58:00 PM »

My sourcing to create this kit on my own is hitting dead ends every day due to what it will cost.. Frustrating to say the least.


SOMEONE on the list must be into 3D printing?  Not me, but anyone?

k
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KWKloeber

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #24 on: February 17, 2018, 02:51:15 AM »



When the ER kits are gone they are gone unless you can find one on eBay.


RC,

I am looking at the pics (don't have my reg case opened up) and it seems that "a kit" isn't absolutely necessary.  Since I'm not hands-on maybe I'm missing a mousetrap that I can't forsee -- please correct me if I am.  But it seems that that the field connections could be brought thru the OEM reg cover in 5 or 6 different ways (without experimenting not sure yet which would be the best method.)

A Packard 56 connector or other connector (instead of bolt terminal) could be used on the new field wire

Has anyone made the switch and still have their old reg??  I would love to experiment with it.

ken
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

mainesail

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #25 on: February 17, 2018, 08:08:35 AM »

Ken,

Any alternator can be converted to ER, it's just a matter of how professionally or unprofessionally you want it done. Some alternators are extremely hard to convert (Hitachi, Denso, Mitsubishi, many J180 frames etc.) and others are a bit easier.

Most alternator shops simply solder a wire to the brushes and pull it through a gap in the case. I have seen some regulators destroyed when the field wire shorts to ground because the conversion was done in a rather unprofessional manner. I have also seen shops use 60C wire used and seen it literally melt to the rectifier and short. I replaced an alt a guy on SBO had an alt-shop convert that shorted in this manner in late September. It took out his Balmar regulator when it shorted. This is what I consider an unprofessional conversion.. When I convert the Hitachi's or other frames, that require internal wiring, I use MIL-Spec 200C wire and a high temp no-lead solder that runs $110.00 per pound.

In regards to the 8MR, the key for me, is that the ER kit maintains USCG & UL compliance for use on gas engines, & for spark protection, where a DIY conversion would lack this. No big deal on a diesel but for gas it could actually be unsafe to do a your own DIY spark protection kit... These alts were installed on many gas engines so for me, when I build them, I want to retain the spark protection as LN designed it.

These kits only existed because LN originally built these alts for Balmar and Balmar insisted on UL/USCG spark compliance. Balmar dropped this in favor of the 6 & 7 series alternators based on Delco and LN dual internal fan frames.. The LN South American factory that built the 7 series was seized and all the machining and tooling was lost. I've been able to source all the original components used in the Balmar because these were US made (up until recently) but the ER kits were discontinued. The factory ER kit is also shallower than the internal reg plate so the F to R dimension does not change for clearance.

You can melt the epoxy, and the existing regulator, out of the plate, but you will now have unsealed slots or holes in the side. I have experimented with this and it can be done, but labor wise is pretty tedious. I mounted insulated studs at 9:00 & 3:00 then filled with potting epoxy, but again, it's tedious and I would not be able to sell them for gas engines....

In the future it may be all we have unless I can come up with an ER kit. Just last week I tempted my LN contact with a 500 piece order for the ER kits. They previously declined a 250 piece order. I don't know what I will do if they bite but it may prompt them to sell me rights to the kit or I bite the bullet and buy 500. I did just find some in Europe but landed cost will be well in excess of $65.00 each.. Argh....

When I build using the Delco frames/components I have a company that builds me custom ER regulator plates, but these alts are for diesel use only and these reg plates are not inexpensive to have made in short runs.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2018, 08:11:15 AM by mainesail »
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-Maine Sail
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2018, 09:21:11 AM »

Maine Sail,

This fellow is close to me on Saltspring Island:

https://www.i3dgear.com/online-store
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KWKloeber

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #27 on: February 17, 2018, 11:12:14 AM »

Rod,

Zero-ing on just the 8MRs, only method I envisioned leaves the spark-arrested reg as-is.  Iím sensitive to the gasser and labor issues.

Is the ground continuous thru the OEM reg?  If so that wire could just be left as-is.  (Or if not, could it be grounded to the case via a screw on the clip holding the brush retainer?)

Could one of the wires (excite? D+?)  be clipped where it exits the potting, and be butt-crimped to the field wire? 

That leaves the case exactly as-is as far as spark-arresting, be no more labor than installing the kit, and be zero cost.

If that method was viable, I guess the question is whether the result would be professional ďenough.Ē
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John Langford

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #28 on: February 17, 2018, 02:25:27 PM »

Very helpful discussion re external regulator conversion kit availability, or lack of. Thanks to everyone.

Question: I have a conversion kit on my existing 8mr2401ua alternator. If this alternator fails and I replace it with another 8mr alternator (e.g. 8mr2069ta), can I reuse the conversion kit from the existing alternator?
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John
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mainesail

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Re: Alternator Upgrade
« Reply #29 on: February 21, 2018, 04:52:08 AM »



Is the ground continuous thru the OEM reg?  If so that wire could just be left as-is.  (Or if not, could it be grounded to the case via a screw on the clip holding the brush retainer?)

These units are not case grounded & the external ground wire is not continuous through the reg to the brush wire. The IR needs to be 100% disabled for ER & the neg brush lead ties to the insulated neg post. The area inside the unit, to solder or tap into the neg rectifier internally, is quite tight so an external connection, to the insulated NEG post, is best.

Could one of the wires (excite? D+?)  be clipped where it exits the potting, and be butt-crimped to the field wire?

There is no path through the existing reg for an external regulator field drive. One some of the 8MR regs the sense lead will tone-out to one brush wire, continuity wise, but this pathway is far too light, inside the regulator, to drive a 6-7A field current for an ER. It is set up for sense only and is a very light pathway (not intended to carry any current just sense voltage).. Inside the stock IR it is 100% epoxy encapsulated and just gets disemboweled, if you want to use that plate to drive the brushes for ER.

Again you can create an ER plate from and old reg with some potting epoxy or insulated studs at 9:00 & 3:00 but it is nowhere near as easy as using LN's old kit.

That leaves the case exactly as-is as far as spark-arresting, be no more labor than installing the kit, and be zero cost.

Except it won't work as you described, wiring wise..

« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 04:58:25 AM by mainesail »
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