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Author Topic: Rotella T vs. T4  (Read 7967 times)

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Breakin Away

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Rotella T vs. T4
« on: November 13, 2016, 07:20:27 AM »

I'm having a hard time finding Rotella T 15-40. I found a couple quart bottles in stock, but so far not enough of them to fill the motor. Can't find gallons, except at West Marine ($27/gallon, more than double the commodity retailers).

I am finding lots of gallon bottles of Rotella T4 (but can't find quart bottles of it  :? ). T4 seems to be a "new and improved" version. No sign that it's synthetic.

There is no sign of Rotella T on Shell's website, just T1 (straight grade, not multi grade), T4, T5 (synthetic), and T6 (synthetic):

http://rotella.shell.com/products.html

Searching here on "Rotella T4" generates no hits, so this would appear to be a new topic, and thus worthy of discussion.

It looks to me like Shell has realigned their product line to eliminate Rotella T and replaced it with "new and improved" T4.

How does this match up with your guys' experience? Do I really need to go out and get fleeced for an oil that I won't be able to top off next summer after the supply chain has exhausted its inventory?
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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2016, 07:25:29 AM »

Just found another page on Shell's website. Looks like there is an imminent product realignment, and Rotella T just might be discontinued at some point, to be replaced with T4:

http://rotella.shell.com/products/triple-protection-plus-technology.html

Quote
INTRODUCING THE NEXT EVOLUTION OF HARDWORKING PROTECTION

Shell ROTELLAŽ is proud to announce a change to our hardworking portfolio of heavy duty diesel engine oils. We wanted to create the most technically advanced Shell ROTELLAŽ formulation ever. And we did. We also aimed to clearly organize our portfolio so you knew which oil to choose.

As the technology behind Shell Rotella evolves, the hard work that drives us always stays the same. Introducing the new, Shell Rotella T4 Triple ProtectionŽ

Our new CK-4-ready Shell Rotella T4 Triple Protection and Shell Rotella T5 Synthetic Blend are already on the market and our expanded portfolio launches in December 2016 when API CK-4 and FA-4 licensing begins.

A new design to help make your hard work easier. Be on the lookout for these new Shell ROTELLAŽ bottles to arrive beginning this fall at a store near you.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 07:26:51 AM by Breakin Away »
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Ron Hill

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2016, 12:14:27 PM »

Break : Have you looked at Walmart?
 I have always bought my Mobile One synthetic Diesel at Walmart.

A thought

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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2016, 12:32:31 PM »

Yes, I have checked at 4 local Walmart stores. Some stores have no Rotella T or T4 - only T1, T5, and T6. The ones that have it have T4 by the gallon (no quarts) and quarts of T (no gallons). I think they are in the middle of a transition, trying to get rid of the Rotalla T quarts before the fill the pipeline with Rotella T4 quarts.

I've decided I'm going with T4, and bought two gallons. I'll probably fill an empty quart bottle to meet ongoing top-off needs, but only after I fix the other issues mentioned on another thread.

I suspect that there's no problem inter-mixing T4 and T, but why risk it? I'm going to avoid the discontinued stuff just in case.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2016, 12:59:07 PM by Breakin Away »
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KWKloeber

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2016, 03:09:18 PM »

My nearby Home Depots have T4 quarts.

-kk
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KWKloeber

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2016, 11:15:08 AM »

Here's a really crazy thought -- go to your Kb dealer and get Kb brand (recommended) oil. 
$
4.50 / qt,;  $18 / gal.



-kk
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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #6 on: November 14, 2016, 02:42:21 PM »

I'd consider it if the dealers were closer and had hours that wouldn't require me leaving work. For a commodity like oil, I'll buy the refiners brand - which, as you know, is the same thing that Kubota does. I'll eventually find quart bottles, since I have a bunch of Home Depots and Walmarts within 10 miles of my house, and I drop by there for many other things anyway.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2016, 02:44:31 PM by Breakin Away »
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Jeff Kaplan

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2016, 03:04:14 PM »

With such a short season in New England, I have always used Chevron Delo 400  SAE 30W.  You really only need a multi viscosity oil is your boat is in the water most of the year and have several temp. changes.  A multi visc  15W-40 means that it thins down to 10W in cold weather and thickens up to 40W in hot weather.  I have never had any problems using straight weight oil. If you want to stick with Shell Rotella, which by the way is great oil,I used to sell it to the fleets,  check truck stops, heavy duty truck parts stores, and most truck dealers, Mack, I/H, Freightliner,Peterbilt, KW, ect. sell Shell Rotella, 1gal or 5 gal. containers.
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2016, 07:15:24 PM »

I disagree.  I just shopped for the oil in my new home in BC. $57 for 5 liters of Good oil vs $18 for Dino oil.  No problem at all with that choice.  Search Dino here.  Synthetic ain't all that great.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Breakin Away

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2016, 08:23:52 PM »

I also disagree on a couple of points. First, multigrade oils don't really "thicken up" at higher temperatures. All oils thin down at higher temperatures, but multigrade thins down less than single grade. So a 15W40 oil will be as thin as 15W single grade at low temperature, and as thin as 40W single grade at high temperature. It's still thinner at high temperature, just not as thin as a 15W would be at high temperature.

Also, the motor's operating temperature is the same in all weather. It's all about cold starts, and how quickly oil gets to all the moving parts when starting cold. So in shoulder season, when you may be starting up at temps as low as 40F in the morning, a multigrade oil will protect your engine better because it's thinner at cold temperature than a heavier single grade. My feeling is that if it's cold enough that you need glow plugs, then you may need multigrade oil.

But take all this with a grain of salt. I'm no expert - I just play on on TV.   :D
« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 05:03:09 AM by Breakin Away »
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2016, 06:22:06 AM »

The M25 engine manual says:

Above 77F   SAE 30

32F to 77F   SAE 20

Below 32F    SAE 10 or SAE 10W-30

There may be a similar note in the M35 series engine manuals, it would be helpful to look.

That said, there have been many discussions here about the use of synthetic vs. dinosaur engine oil.  A simple search would turn up most of them.  The issue raised about synthetic oils revolves around the seals, notably for the oil pan.  I tried synthetic years and years ago and evidenced some minor weeping at the drain pan where there had been none before, so I went back to dino oil.  I've been using 15W-40 for the past five years.

Now that I am in a cooler environment, still have had no issues starting our engine.  I installed the solenoid on our starting circuit and only need to hold the glow plugs for 12-15 seconds. 

Please remember that this is for our M25 engine.

« Last Edit: November 15, 2016, 06:22:38 AM by Stu Jackson »
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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2016, 07:16:35 AM »

I had checked the manual. The latest edition of Westerbeke's Operator Manual, which covers all B series models, recommends 15W40 for everything. No mention is made of single grade.

I am very surprised to hear of any recommendation for single grade 10W or 20W oil. Those may lubricate quickly enough upon initial startup in cold temperatures, but I would think they're way too thin once the motor gets to operating temperature, especially for an older motor.

I have little interest in synthetic oil for something that gets as little use as a sailboat auxiliary power application.
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kwaltersmi

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2016, 07:43:44 AM »

I had checked the manual. The latest edition of Westerbeke's Operator Manual, which covers all B series models, recommends 15W40 for everything. No mention is made of single grade.

Agreed. I've been using Rotella T 15W-40 from day 1 and hope to do so, so long as I can still find it.
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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2016, 07:58:56 AM »

I had checked the manual. The latest edition of Westerbeke's Operator Manual, which covers all B series models, recommends 15W40 for everything. No mention is made of single grade.

I am very surprised to hear of any recommendation for single grade 10W or 20W oil. Those may lubricate quickly enough upon initial startup in cold temperatures, but I would think they're way too thin once the motor gets to operating temperature, especially for an older motor.

I have little interest in synthetic oil for something that gets as little use as a sailboat auxiliary power application.

Thanks for posting that excerpt.  Good info for M35 skippers.  And a good reminder.

Your surprise may be mitigated by the simple "March of Time."  :D  Some of us are old enough to remember the days before multi-viscosity oil.  We'd use a thinner oil in the winter in our cars.

Remember that the M25 engines were designed and built a long time ago.  There is a link somewhere (I'll try to find it) about the history of the Universal engines, maybe it's on the Kubota website.  But these tractor engines were in use well before they were stuffed into our sailboats!  :D

I believe the "argument" for and against synthetic oil may have less to do with hours of use than it does for cost.  Why spend twice as much for something that even the manufacturers didn't originally recommend?  New car manufacturers may recommend synthetic oil for their automobiles, but the tractor builders don't or didn't.

Your boat, your choice.  :D
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KWKloeber

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Re: Rotella T vs. T4
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2016, 08:03:48 AM »

What's date manuals are you guys looking at?  Op manual? or Service man?

Below is from manuals on the Wb site (presumably the most recent?). 
Please let me know if you have newer one so I can post on the Wiki.

2010 M-25XPB, M-35B/40B Operator's Manual:

CF, CG-4, or CI-4

Above 68F (20C)       SAE 30 or 10W-30
41F to 68F (5-20C)   SAE 20 or 10W-30
Below 41F (5C)         SAE 10W-30

2001 M-25XPB, M-35B/40B Service Manual:

CF or CG-4
10-30, 10W-30, 15W-40 (no reference at all to temps.)

Note that it's not unusual for Wb to publish conflicting or incomplete info, or not update out of date manuals.

-kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain
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