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Author Topic: Do I have an exhaust water leak?  (Read 10385 times)

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KWKloeber

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #45 on: July 15, 2016, 02:45:36 PM »

Any reason why you would think the exh manifold needs replacing? 
Probably just rusty and cleaned up and repaint?

B-O-A-T, 'eh?

Welcome to boat ownership!

1.   Before you fix anything, you'll need to first fix two other things
2.   If you find something that's standard, a PO has previously replaced the item.
3.   Nothing goes as quickly as you estimate.  Take your most realistic estimate and double it. 
4.   You will need to buy at least one new tool to complete a difficult job (the one good thing.)
5.   A minimum of three trips to home/hardware store/west marine is is average for any job.
6.   3 trips to the boat is average to complete a medium-hard fix.
7.   5 trips to the boat is average to complete an no-brainer fix.
8.   Nothing you buy from a marine source will have complete instructions/installation directions/enough parts to complete the job.
9.   Take #3 and multiply by 3.
10. If you move, disassemble, or adjust anything not associated with the repair at hand, it will break.
11. If you don't, it will break next week.

Why we do love to do this?  LOL!

k
« Last Edit: July 15, 2016, 02:46:05 PM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Stu Jackson

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #46 on: July 15, 2016, 10:28:14 PM »

Paul,

I agree with Ken re the manifold.  Sand or ScotchBrite and maybe then paint, but it is it RARE for them to go south.

With what shows in your picture, diss the old riser, and get a new one.  My reply #8 on page 1 explained how, with discussions (but not direct links) to "those who have come before."

You've been "in there" already, you know the territory, and the Tips & Tricks in my Tech Notes should make mincemeat of getting the old riser off.  Wish I'd had those tricks when I did my first two tries!    :D

You have a complete catastrophic riser failure ahead of you, and if it's leaking already, especially right there, it sure ain't gonna get any better, JB Weld or not.

Do it now or do it later.

Your boat, your choice.  :D

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britinusa

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #47 on: July 16, 2016, 04:43:07 AM »

If anyone ever doubts the value of this association membership - having to do a job like this and taking the time to read all of the experience and advice that contributors make here - it's Gold in the Hand!

Decision made.
I'll call CD Monday with Pics of the existing riser with the intent of ordering the Riser kit. Our HX is pretty new, so hopefully it'll be easy (ha!) to remove and make access easy.


So... here's my plan.
  • Cover Transmission casing to protect from PB drips.
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange
  • Disconnect the Raw Water Hose from Strainer & Engine (hose to be replaced)
  • Disconnect faucet hoses (easy access to hump hose and Riser Nipple
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange - again
  • Remove Hump Hose
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange - again
  • Disconnect the Nipple hose from Nipple and Anti Siphon (to be replaced with nylon reinforced hose)
  • Cut existing Fiberglass wrap around Riser (to be replaced by kit from CD)
  • Disconnect HX hoses and remove HX for access (making sure to keep transmission casing covered from PB drips)
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange - again
  • Remove the two top nuts from the Exhaust Flange
  • Follow Stu's method to remove the Lower Nut
  • Remove the old Riser
  • Disconnect the Riser from the Exhaust Flange (will need big vice) - May have to bring it home.
  • Clean the face of the Exhaust Flange (wet-n-dry 2000) & Outer Surface (wire brush) (
  • Connect the new Riser to the Exhaust Flange (Pipe Dope or Superlube?) Rotate to correct position
  • Install Riser & Exhaust Flange onto Engine (inserting Gasket)
  • Replace nuts similar process to removal
  • Re-install HX & Hoses
  • Install new Riser Insulation - Check for gap between Insulation & HX
  • Install new Raw Water Hose
  • Install new Nylon hose from Anti Siphon to Nipple (double clamps)
  • Install Hump Hose
  • Reconnect Raw Water hose to strainer
  • Reconnect faucet hoses to faucet tubes
  • Clean up
  • Test Engine
  • Crack a Beer

Taking lots of pics (pay back for the forum)
Any chance of the torque setting to use when tightening the nuts on the exhaust flange or is it 3 white knuckles?

That's abot 30 steps, with an average of about 10 mins per step, this should take about 5 hours, throw in a few trips to WM and a couple of trips home. This is a two day job minimum (I keep the boat at the back of a house in Fort Lauderdale, 20 mins from the Big West Marine and 30mins from my house)

Heading down to the boat this morning to get started.

Paul
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britinusa

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #48 on: July 16, 2016, 05:00:16 AM »

Is this the correct type for the Anti-siphon to Nipple hose?

http://www.westmarine.com/buy/shields-rubber--series-135-heavy-duty-water-hose--P011_333_001_010

Paul
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KWKloeber

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #49 on: July 16, 2016, 07:47:38 AM »

Paul.

Series 130, 135, 160, 200 are all non-helix-wire hoses (in somewhat increasing pressure rating (and so reinforcement/stiffness,) and would work.  The more the reinforcement, also the less likely to kink at a bend.

Or go real sexy w/ sillycone hose at 2x the cost.

The nuts are 3/8" UNF thread.
The studs are 3/8" UNF x 3/8" UNC

heat on the nuts can help break the corrosion

Hi-temp pipe dope, not superlube.

move #28 to after #26.
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

Stu Jackson

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #50 on: July 16, 2016, 08:16:39 AM »

You don't need to do #9.

#17 - Connect the new Riser to the Exhaust Flange (Pipe Dope or Superlube?) - The CD "kit" comes with stuff to use on the threads between the new riser and the flange.
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 08:18:57 AM by Stu Jackson »
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KWKloeber

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #51 on: July 16, 2016, 10:03:22 AM »

Stu,

I read your note on removing the lower nut -- JIC, would you recommend a 6-point rather than 12-point box end wrench for that?

kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

KWKloeber

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #52 on: July 16, 2016, 11:11:03 AM »

Uploaded my Shields marine hose catalog to the TW, under the "Manuals" topic,  "Supplier Catalogs" subtopic.

It is a searchable PDF (e.g., "coolant hose") and I added page bookmarks to locate the catalog section for each type/use  of hose (e.g., <Wet Exhaust System>).

kk
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 11:12:06 AM by KWKloeber »
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

britinusa

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #53 on: July 16, 2016, 02:37:48 PM »

The removal part went well.

The only difficulty was removing the lower of the 3 nuts holding the Exhaust Flange to the Engine. I tried Stu's technique, couldn't do it.
But... I used a 6 point socket and a piece of pipe to extend the socket handle over to the Stbd side of the engine and after liberal applications of PB I was able to get the nut out, well I got the whole Stud out! The top two nuts came off with a bit of grunting, but the bottom one took more time than the rest of the removal job.

The Riser has cracks by the nipple and the Exhaust Flange is beyond cleaning up. So I'll get replacements for both.

The Raw Water hose shows chafe marks where it goes through the hole in the engine bulkhead.

The Raw Water discharge hose came off the Anti Siphon widget with a bit more grunting, I was getting concerned that I might break the siphon, but it's fine. Just had to twist the hoses off.

The amount of fiberglass tape wrapped around the riser by the flange made getting to the lower nut difficult, so I cut that away.

While down there, I released the electrical umbrella that covers the electrical connector block. I'm sure I can make a better job of keeping the block dry from above and making better connections.

Add one thing to the list... Turn off the Bilge Pump! when I disconnected the hose from the water heater, I was surprised how much fluid came out, so I quickly jumped over to the electrical panel and turned the bilge pump off before the float switch kicked in, thus saving any discharge overboard.

FYI. We have a 2 1/2" grand-daughter we care or 3 days a week, Granpa's girl, so we have plenty of disposable diapers around, and some are too small. So I use them on the boat for bilge clean up. They work really well, are very cheap and easy to dispose of.

I pumped out the bilge water (& coolant) using a small hand pump into a container that I took to the local disposal site along with some old containers of old Diesel oil and Truck engine oil.

Pics once they upload from my phone.

Paul
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britinusa

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #54 on: July 16, 2016, 02:47:52 PM »

Ken, I sent a PM.

Paul
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Ron Hill

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #55 on: July 16, 2016, 06:34:11 PM »

Paul : When you reinstall the new riser, don't forget to check that the mating surface for the flange w/riser on he engine is absolutely CLEAN of old gasket material
I'd recommend that you check it Thrice!!  If not clean you find coolant running or dripping out of the internal cooling system when you refill it!!

A thought
« Last Edit: July 16, 2016, 06:35:09 PM by Ron Hill »
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britinusa

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #56 on: July 17, 2016, 12:07:27 AM »

Tanks Ron,
The old Exhaust Flange is pretty corroded, I was able to break off about 1/8" of the surface where the Riser screws in.

So far my 'kit' includes, New Riser, New Flange, New Gasket, New Studs, New Insulation Jacket, New Hoses.

Then last night while we (Adm. Peggy) were discussing the project, the issue of reconnecting the hot water heater to the engine came up. So now it's expanded to new Heater hoses (The Water tank was disconnected from the engine when we bought the boat). More research  :santa

Paul
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Paul & Peggy
1987 C34 Tall Rig Fin Keel - Hull # 463

See you out on the water

Engine:M25XP

britinusa

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #57 on: July 17, 2016, 12:35:56 AM »

Updated Plan


So... here's my plan.
  • Turn off the Bilge Pump to prevent discharge of any fluids released when hoses are disconnected.
  • Cover Transmission casing to protect from PB drips.
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange
  • Disconnect the Raw Water Hose from Strainer & Engine (hose to be replaced)
  • Disconnect faucet hoses (easy access to hump hose and Riser Nipple
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange - again
  • Remove Hump Hose
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange - again
  • Disconnect the Nipple hose from Nipple and Anti Siphon (to be replaced with nylon reinforced hose)
  • Cut existing Fiberglass wrap around Riser (to be replaced by kit from CD)
  • Disconnect HX hoses and remove HX for access (making sure to keep transmission casing covered from PB drips)
  • Apply PB to the 3 nuts on the Exhaust Flange - again
  • Remove the two top nuts from the Exhaust Flange
  • Follow Stu's method to remove the Lower Nut
  • Remove the old Riser
  • Disconnect the Riser from the Exhaust Flange (will need big vice) - May have to bring it home.
  • Clean the face of the Exhaust Flange (wet-n-dry 2000) & Outer Surface (wire brush) (
  • Connect the New Riser to the New Exhaust Flange (Pipe Dope or Superlube?) Rotate to correct position
  • Install Riser & Exhaust Flange onto Engine (inserting Gasket)
  • Replace nuts similar process to removal
  • Re-install HX & Hoses
  • Install new Riser Insulation - Check for gap between Insulation & HX
  • Install new Raw Water Hose
  • Install new Silicone hose from Anti Siphon to Nipple (double clamps)
  • Install Hump Hose
  • Reconnect Raw Water hose to strainer
  • Reconnect faucet hoses to faucet tubes
  • Fill Coolant Tank (Need to Burp the system)
  • Test Engine
  • Clean up
  • Crack a Beer

And while I could not sleep tonight (it's 3:15am here in Florida) I came up with a method of setting the angle for the Riser in the Flange - Simple! Just take a 4x2 about 3' long, screw a couple of pieces of Ply to it that are a close fit to the width of the Flange and use that as a Vice/Lever.

Time for more research, I want to make sure the hoses seal well at their connections, need to clean up the mild corrosion on the nipples on the HX and looking at how to rework the electrical connections and figure out how to clean up the Engine side of the Exhaust Flange attachment.

Ken, you were right about the B.O.A.T. and list  :?
Paul
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Paul & Peggy
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See you out on the water

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KWKloeber

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #58 on: July 17, 2016, 06:18:20 AM »

Tanks Ron,
The old Exhaust Flange is pretty corroded, I was able to break off about 1/8" of the surface where the Riser screws in.

So far my 'kit' includes, New Riser, New Flange, New Gasket, New Studs, New Insulation Jacket, New Hoses.

Then last night while we (Adm. Peggy) were discussing the project, the issue of reconnecting the hot water heater to the engine came up. So now it's expanded to new Heater hoses (The Water tank was disconnected from the engine when we bought the boat). More research  :santa

Paul

hmmmmmm....  sounds like a leaking WH to me?

kk
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Twenty years from now you'll be more disappointed by the things you didn't do, than by the ones you did.
So throw off the bowlines.  Sail away from the safe harbor.  Catch the tradewinds in your sails.
Explore.  Dream.  Discover.   -Mark Twain

britinusa

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Re: Do I have an exhaust water leak?
« Reply #59 on: July 17, 2016, 06:40:18 AM »

Ken, I do not think we have any Water Heater leaks. I had returned the hot water tank into service late last year, since then we have been able to use the hot water tank system and no leaks.

The hoses from the Tank are sitting in the bottom of the galley enclosure and still run aft to the engine bay stbd side. There is a bypass hose from the Thermostat to the return on the engine.

So I think all I have to do is to replace the hoses (cannot trust them) and connect them in place of the bypass hose.

Paul
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1987 C34 Tall Rig Fin Keel - Hull # 463

See you out on the water

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