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Author Topic: Fuel issue  (Read 16458 times)

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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #30 on: August 27, 2013, 09:03:06 AM »

Thanks Ron.
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #31 on: August 28, 2013, 08:56:28 AM »

Ok, new glow plugs on order, material for the solenoid upgrade on hand. My big question about the upgrade is this: looking at the diagram Stu developed and reading what everyone says,
The white wire comes off the (+) side of starter solenoid to the new Glow Plug solenoid. It then runs from there to the aft glow plug. How does the glow plug switch activate the glow plugs since it is cut from the GP circuit?

In addition, I'm also installing a (-) Bus Bar in the engine compartment and also moving dedicated starter battery from up forward to nearer the motor.
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Ed Shankle

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #32 on: August 28, 2013, 09:46:59 AM »

Think you got the wiring mixed Lance. The white wire comes off the glow plug and attaches to the new solenoid. There are 2 new #8 wires, one from the starter to the new solenoid and the other from the new solenoid to the glow plug.
The white wire engages the new solenoid when you turn the ignition switch over and the power flows from the starter, through the solenoid to the glow plug.

Ed
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Ed Shankle
Tail Wind #866 1989
Salem, MA

Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #33 on: August 28, 2013, 12:17:14 PM »

Lance, Ed's right.  Read the NOTES on the "existing" and "new" wiring.  Existing says; "remove from here..."

Anything else, let us know.

PS - I know it's your boat, but you have the option of moving the reserve battery or simply buying larger (+) and (-) wires.  Your boat, your choice, didn't know if you knew you had the choice.  FWIW, we have the OEM #4 wires from the reserve bank which lives in the battery box in front of the galley sink.  My house bank wires from the bank to the 1-2-B switch and on to the starter are also the OEM #4s.  Maine Sail has suggested many times that these are too small, but mine have been working for 26 years!  My alternator output, however, is run directly to the house bank and is #2, and I added a new negative wire also, with the alternator grounded by WIRE to the engine ground (not case grounded to the engine like the OEM).
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 12:21:40 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #34 on: August 28, 2013, 02:27:50 PM »

I understand removing the wire from glow plug. On Kitty's Cat, the original WHITE wire runs from starter solenoid to the glow plug button in the cockpit. It then returns from the glow plug button as a brown wire to the aft glow plug.

So, correct me if I'm wrong, by moving WHITE wire to NEW solenoid (and not to the GP button) you remove glow plug button from the circuit. So, do the GPs stay on the entire time until the key is turned off?
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Ron Hill

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #35 on: August 28, 2013, 03:44:09 PM »

Lance : You need to understand what the glow plug mod is doing.
 
Right now the voltage/amperage is going from the starter solenoid stud common + connection to the glow plug switch on the engine instrument panel and then finally thru the small wiring back to the glow plugs.  Not much juice!!

The mod takes a much larger wire #8 or #6 from the +hot terminal (starter solenoid stud) and goes direct to the glow plugs (aft plug).  In between there is a new solenoid (SWITCH) to control the ON/OFF of that wire.  The new solenoid is turned ON/OFF by the wire from that glow plug switch on the engine instrument panel.  That wire from the glow plug switch is connected to the "instantaneous"  pole of the new glow plug solenoid (NOT the "continuous" pole).  The feet of the new glow plug solenoid are the ground (-) connection, so the solenoid need to be mounted on the grounded engine or a ground wire.

I wrote this up back in 1996/97? Mainsheet tech notes.  Clear as mud??
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Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #36 on: August 28, 2013, 04:17:06 PM »

Ron's right.  However, like a but ( :shock:), the wiring in my sketch uses a ground wire to the engine simply because it is mounted not on the engine but on the strip of wood above it.  I don't recall if that ground wire is shown on my sketch, but there is one in real life on my boat.

Good luck, please ask if you have any more questions.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Ken Juul

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #37 on: August 28, 2013, 04:58:29 PM »

Each boat is a bit different.  If on your boat the power to the glow plug switch is the white wire, that should stay in place.   The brown wire from the switch would go to the momentary post on the selenoid.
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Ken & Vicki Juul
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Ron Hill

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #38 on: August 28, 2013, 06:03:21 PM »

Guys : If you already haven't figured out why Catalina didn't give you a wiring diagram of the MKI  engine instrument panel - its very simple!!  They wired boats even in the same production year with different colored wires!!
 
Those of us that have done the wiring harness upgrade early on (1992) found/substantiated that Catalina used every different color wire.  The only color that you can depend on Catalina factory using for sure is BLACK for the ground wire.  

Otherwise as I have advised in the wiring harness upgrade at the old connectors - "cut a wire and reconnect to its mate.  Do NOT clip all the wires at once and then try to re-mate them"!!!

On the Glow plug upgrade Forget about sketches/colors, take the wire from the existing last (aft) glow plug and connect it to the interment pole on the new solenoid (marked "I") and make sure the foot of the new solenoid is grounded.  

When a few of us (Catalina owners) can up with this fix, all we did was copy what had been done to the newer C34/36s that had the M35 engine installed and modified that installation.
We had no internet or no sketches, just knew that what we had was pretty bad so we came up with the changes necessary to fix the problem!  The others followed in 1994/5 !!

A few thoughts
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 07:22:37 PM by Ron Hill »
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Ron, Apache #788

Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #39 on: August 28, 2013, 06:36:52 PM »

Please don't forget about sketches.  Yup, forget about colors, Ron's right.  I drew the sketch to remind me what I had done on MY boat, for future reference, and posted it so somebody might be assisted in doing theirs.  It simply shows how it works and how it's wired.  There aren't even any colors on it!  All it says is "existing" or "new," including the new ground wire.  How hard can that be?  And in addition to Ron, Captain Al Watson wrote a whole FAQ/wiki article on it.

Lance, take a deep breath, and follow the electrons.  As Ron explained, the solenoid is simply a "remote" switch from the engine panel.  That's all it does.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 06:40:21 PM by Stu Jackson »
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Ron Hill

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #40 on: August 29, 2013, 05:51:12 PM »

Lance : I'd replace the old glow plugs and get the engine running first, before I change the glow plug wiring.

My thoughts
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Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2013, 06:36:44 PM »

I am awaiting the parts that are due to arrive tomorrow. Will follow Ron's suggestion before doing the upgrade. However, I have noticed that when my bilge pump comes on, I have a slick behind the boat. What is the best way to clean up the diesel that has spilled somewhere under the filters and is making its way into the bilge?
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622

Stu Jackson

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2013, 07:55:34 PM »

Simple Green has a good rep for cleaning.  www.pureayre.com for smells.
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Stu Jackson, C34 IA Secretary, #224 1986, "Aquavite"  Cowichan Bay, BC  Maple Bay Marina  SR/FK, M25, Rocna 10 (22#) (NZ model)

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Jim Hardesty

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #43 on: September 03, 2013, 08:14:08 AM »

Some smells trigger my asthma so I watch what I use.  I use a scent free liquid fabric softener about one cap-full in a half gallon of water.  Pour it where the leak was let it work to the bilge and set for a while.  Then rinse.  For the small spills I've had that worked.
Jim
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Jim Hardesty
2001 MKII hull #1570 M35BC  "Shamrock"
sailing Lake Erie
from Commodore Perry Yacht Club
Erie, PA

Lance Jones

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Re: Fuel issue
« Reply #44 on: September 03, 2013, 10:47:19 AM »

I'd heard that about simple green and fabric softener. Thanks for the ideas.
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Lance Jones
1988  C-34 Kitty's Cat
S/N 622
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