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Author Topic: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig  (Read 1081 times)

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Trillium

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Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« on: November 14, 2021, 10:01:46 AM »

DIY Boat Owner recommends mounting the scanner just above the spreaders.  Does any member have experience of mounting a radar scanner on a tall rig?  I can think of a number of reasons why this might be a good location, including minimizing interference with the Genoa when tacking.
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Noah

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2021, 11:08:04 AM »

It seem to me above the spreaders is too high, both for looks and it would place the weight higher than needed. I have a standard rig,  not tall. My  4G radar is mounted below the spreaders and above the steaming light, using a bracket from Kato Marine. I fly a 135% genoa and have never had any issues with it “hanging up” on the radar.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 11:59:20 AM by Noah »
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

Gregory M

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2021, 12:02:09 PM »

Many sailors, many options. Mine is mounted above spreaders on Tall Rig, no issues  :thumb:
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Gregory, "Luna Rossa", #1063, 1990, T.Rig Mk 1.5, fin keel. Universal M 35,  Rocna 15,
Penetanguishene ON.

waughoo

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2021, 09:24:28 AM »

Mine is mounted just a smidge higher than where Noah's is at.  I have seen it above the spreaders and I feel that asthetically it is too high.  Also, higher does hurt short range performance.
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Alex - Seattle, WA
91 mk1.5 #1120
Std rig w/wing keel
Universal M35
Belafonte

Trillium

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2021, 10:38:22 AM »

Thanks to all of you for your advice and some amazing photos.  Noah's reminded me that I also have a speaker to mount and now is the opportunity to do just that.

Many than ks,

Nigel
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waughoo

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2021, 11:06:46 AM »

Nigel,

RE: your hailer speaker, make sure you use shielded wire for the run from the speaker down the mast.  A radio with a listen back hailer will pick up AM stations if it isnt shielded.
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Alex - Seattle, WA
91 mk1.5 #1120
Std rig w/wing keel
Universal M35
Belafonte

glennd3

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2021, 02:03:54 PM »

It seem to me above the spreaders is too high, both for looks and it would place the weight higher than needed. I have a standard rig,  not tall. My  4G radar is mounted below the spreaders and above the steaming light, using a bracket from Kato Marine. I fly a 135% genoa and have never had any issues with it “hanging up” on the radar.

I wish I sailed where there are palm trees in the photos! :cry4`
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Glenn Davis
Knot Yet
1990 Catalina 34 Mk 1.5
Hull 1053
TR/WK
M25XP
Patapsco River
Chesapeake Bay Maryland

Noah

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2021, 02:31:20 PM »

 8)
That was taken two weeks ago on a three-day solo cruise to Mission Bay. Can’t beat So. Ca for year-round weather.
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

PaulJacobs

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2021, 07:38:57 AM »

Pleiades does not have radar.  But if she did, I would mount it on a swivel bracket on the backstay.  Sailboats heel.  Thus, using a fixed radar bracket on the mast means that for a significant portion of the cycle the radar is aimed at the sky, and for another significant portion of the cycle it is aimed into the water.  Assuming you are concerned about objects ON the water (buoys, rocks, other boats) and NOT seagulls, cormorants or pelicans, or turtles, sharks and whales, the use of a pendulum -type mount that keeps the radar beam very nearly parallel to the sea surface would seem to be what you want.

Dr. Paul Jacobs
Pleiades
1990 TR/SK #1068
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Noah

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2021, 08:12:52 AM »

Paul- I think the gimbaled mount is not as necessary with today’s high definition radars and the way sailboaters use radars. There are lots of comments and discussions on the Forums about this. Albeit a lot of opinions: here is one that I thought presents one side of argument pretty well:

“ I find that I only ever use radar to find small objects when in rather quiet conditions, rather obviously in poor visibility or darkness, but very rarely when heeled over. So I think the OP's question is more theoretical than real.

For big objects such as headlands, they move relative to you only at the speed of your boat, so the occasional view is enough to make a fix, after which one can sail on according to DR in the traditional way so continuous radar look out is not required.

When in poor visibility where there are small uncharted hazards you really should slow down and not bash on as fast as poss, whether upwind or not, so again the angle of heel isn't so critical. In big seas when the boat is rolling heavily the radar will mostly pick up waves anyway and so yacht radars are pretty useless (and golly your stomach will have to be strong - to use radar effectively you can't be steering / cooking / doing the crossword at the same time, you have to stare at it and concentrate for tens of minutes at a time if you are to distinguish random clutter from real targets.)

So the only time one might need the radar when heeled over for extended periods is when sailing is in poor vis amongst shipping on a reasonable length passage, say cross channel. AIS receive has made all the difference here, and radar is much less important than it might have been once. And if able to afford radar, I'm sure you will have fitted an AIS which transmits as well as ”
« Last Edit: November 17, 2021, 08:20:32 AM by Noah »
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
Standard Rig

Admiral_Swellson

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #10 on: November 18, 2021, 06:02:43 AM »

I agree with Dr. Paul.

One thing we know for sure is that people love gadgets almost as much as they love rationalizing away the reasons for doing things the right way instead of the expedient or cheaper way. Also, many people believe "something/anything" is always better than nothing. Both are wrong, but strongly prevalent in human nature.

I don't have a radar because I don't want the expense of doing it right, which can more than double the cost of the unit itself.  :cry4`

Basically, my (humble albeit blunt) opinion is do it right or don't do it at all -- spare yourself the false sense of security.
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Jon W

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #11 on: November 20, 2021, 02:34:57 PM »

Sounds like Robert and Dr Jacobs have put a lot of thought into this topic. Curious how you would dampen the mount.
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, 35# Mantus, Std Rig
San Diego, Ca

Gregory M

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #12 on: November 20, 2021, 07:28:01 PM »

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Gregory, "Luna Rossa", #1063, 1990, T.Rig Mk 1.5, fin keel. Universal M 35,  Rocna 15,
Penetanguishene ON.

Jon W

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2021, 04:55:08 PM »

I’d hoped for a meaningful response to my question from the two gentlemen, but after 10 days guess I’m not getting one. For the remaining 460+ forum members, here’s some food for thought from folks that don’t put things on their boat because they love gadgets, don't believe something is better than nothing, nor do they prefer to do it cheaper vs the right way –

When I installed radar 4 years ago I asked several longtime, long distance cruisers I know and trust how to mount radar for ocean coastal cruising from Seattle to Panama. They said:
   Try to maintain a cruising heal angle of 15-20 degrees for comfort, and install the radar on a fixed mount.
   If on a mast, the installation height depends on the beam angle of the radar unit and how near to the boat you want target recognition.
   Their experience with gimbal/leveling/swing type mounts was they do give some advantage, but for typical cruising you won’t notice a difference.

I recently asked several sailing YouTube channels that are mostly engineering types, sail in different parts of the world or circumnavigate, and are fulltime live aboard cruisers. They said:
   All have radar on a fixed mount installed on the mast, a pole, or a cockpit arch.
   While a fixed mount may trim off a few degrees, it’s not a deal breaker. It still sees plenty far enough for typical use.
   The boat does not sail at a fixed angle of heal, the boat moves.
   One said that years ago he made a custom bracket to set the radar at various angles. He doesn’t adjust it anymore because there’s no real need.

Regarding doing it ”right” means mounting radar with a gimbal/leveling/swing type mount on the back stay, real world experience says that isn’t exactly “right”.

Before deciding on a major investment, ask people you know and trust that have real world experience in the type of sailing you want to do for their input. As is often said, YBYC.
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Jon W.
s/v Della Jean
Hull #493, 1987 MK 1, M25XP, 35# Mantus, Std Rig
San Diego, Ca

Admiral_Swellson

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Re: Fitting Radar on my 34 MkII Tall Rig
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2021, 05:27:22 AM »

I’d hoped for a meaningful response to my question from the two gentlemen, but after 10 days guess I’m not getting one.

Another forum member beat me to the answer, so I didn't feel it necessary to "me too" it.

Thanks for all your research with the "engineering types" on YT. That's super helpful to know we can trust the advice, given the sources were "engineering types" on YT.

Are we done with the veiled insults now or we can act like men?
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