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Author Topic: Anchor fit  (Read 601 times)

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Roc

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2020, 04:33:57 PM »

I'm the one that said to take the chrome finish off the drum.  I got that information from Maxwell when I asked if the drum would work on chain.  The reason to take the chrome off isn't really to make the drum work better for chain, it's because the chrome will chip off and will be like shards of glass which can cut you.  That's what the Maxwell fellow told me.  So I took the drum off and gave it to a friend that worked at a machine shop.  He sanded the chrome off (he looked at me like I was nuts because I gave him a perfectly brand new chrome drum and he wondered why in the world would I want to take the chrome OFF!).

So, in using the drum for chain isn't the greatest, but as Noah said, if you wrap it around a few times, the chain bites and it will work somewhat. Years ago Maxwell did make a retrofit kit for a rope/chain gypsy for this model windlass.  But as understand, they don't anymore so you would need to buy a whole new unit.  In hindsight, I wish I bought the kit back then.
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Roc - "Sea Life" 2000 MKII #1477.  Rock Hall, MD

pbyrne

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2020, 07:08:08 PM »


Hi Roc,

What size of Mantus do you have?  I'm think of going that direction.   How has it been for you?   How did you secure it?

Peter

I'm the one that said to take the chrome finish off the drum.  I got that information from Maxwell when I asked if the drum would work on chain.  The reason to take the chrome off isn't really to make the drum work better for chain, it's because the chrome will chip off and will be like shards of glass which can cut you.  That's what the Maxwell fellow told me.  So I took the drum off and gave it to a friend that worked at a machine shop.  He sanded the chrome off (he looked at me like I was nuts because I gave him a perfectly brand new chrome drum and he wondered why in the world would I want to take the chrome OFF!).

So, in using the drum for chain isn't the greatest, but as Noah said, if you wrap it around a few times, the chain bites and it will work somewhat. Years ago Maxwell did make a retrofit kit for a rope/chain gypsy for this model windlass.  But as understand, they don't anymore so you would need to buy a whole new unit.  In hindsight, I wish I bought the kit back then.
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Roc

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #17 on: July 26, 2020, 10:57:04 AM »

I have the 35lb Mantus.  Fits well on the roller, as you can see.  To secure the anchor, I put a line that has a carabiner clip on one end that is fastened to a link in the anchor chain. The other end is fastened to the mooring cleat in the anchor locker with a cleat hitch.  When deploying the anchor, I just un-cleat the line and un-clip the carabiner.  I then hook the carabiner on the life line to keep it handy when re-securing the anchor.  The Mantus sets quickly and holds very well.  I used to have a Delta Fast Set which was also good.  One thing I noticed with the Mantus (good).  I notice it's takes more effort to break the Mantus free over the Delta in the same anchoring ground.  My guess is it digs in better (deeper).  Not that the Delta didn't, I just notice more force to break it free. In it's day, I think the Delta was pretty good.  But the new anchor designs now seem better.  Just look at the types of anchors you see on other boats as you walk down the dock.  You don't see traditional plows anymore (Delta, or the antique CQR).  Most you see now are the newer generation anchors.  Another point....  there's a consignment shop in the town where we dock (Rock Hall, MD).  If you want to buy a CQR or a Delta, go there.  There has to be at least 20 of those for sale.  Seems like people are getting rid of those and buying the new designs.
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Roc - "Sea Life" 2000 MKII #1477.  Rock Hall, MD

Breakin Away

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2020, 06:57:56 PM »

I'll second the recommendation for Mantus anchor. My 35 lb model has always set reliably on the first try, and held very well. It was the first thing I bought for the boat, because I didn't fully trust the anchor that came with the boat.

As others said, the Maxwell gypsy kit is no longer available - you're stuck with a capstan. As I understand it, you can't even replace the whole windlass without doing major surgery on the anchor locker. Maxwell's current models will not fit in the same footprint.

If you really want to crank the chain up with the capstan, you could also consider doing a couple wraps of Gorilla tape around the capstan to protect it (and provide better grip on the chain). That's what I used to do, though I did have to replace the tape every 4-5 times I used it. But with only 16' of chain (which is about what I have), you could just pull the chain part up by hand once it reaches the capstan. That's what I do now, and getting a Mantus should make this easier since I'm sure it will be lighter than your old CQR. If I had an emergency situation that required me to pull it up real fast, I could pull the chain up with the capstan, but I always avoid that due to potential damage to the chrome.

I second the recommendation to ditch your swivel - it's not needed with nylon rode. But I'd suggest going one further: Splice your rode directly to the chain so you don't even need a shackle or thimble there. Do a 5-6-7 tapered rope-to-chain splice with three strand nylon.  Side loads are terrible on swivels, and not particularly good on shackles or thimbles either. So just splice the rode to the chain, and it will go through your roller like buttah! And if you're in an emergency situation and don't have time to pull your chain up manually, the rode-chain splice will pass around your capstan much more easily without possibly damaging the fiberglass near the capstan.

How to do a 5-6-7 rope-to-chain splice: https://youtu.be/chM39bZ3QXg

As for others' comments about the Mantus taking more force to release from the bottom, that's a good thing, though I've never noticed it. In calm conditions, I take the "slow" approach to leaving an anchorage, pulling my rode up (by hand, no windlass needed) until it's pretty much at 1:1 scope. This lifts the chain off the bottom without un-setting the anchor. I leave it like that for 15 minutes or so and go have breakfast (with anchor alarm running). After that I start up the motor and use the windlass to pull the anchor off the bottom. When doing this, the chain comes up completely free of mud, with no need to wash it off. Then I drag the anchor just under the water for a minute or so while my wife drives out of the anchorage, which gets all the mud off the anchor. If you don't anchor in mud, then this whole procedure is probably unnecessary.

« Last Edit: July 26, 2020, 06:59:51 PM by Breakin Away »
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

pbyrne

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2020, 01:56:20 PM »

I bought the Mantus 35lbs.  Now I need to puzzle out the rest of the system.

What is your setup?  I keep hearing to loose the swivel, however I'm not sure what the recommendation is to secure the anchor shank to the chain.  I see Mantus sells something https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-swivel/.

At the moment I think it's going to be 5/16 HT chain, and 5/8 rode.

I have the 35lb Mantus.  Fits well on the roller, as you can see.  To secure the anchor, I put a line that has a carabiner clip on one end that is fastened to a link in the anchor chain. The other end is fastened to the mooring cleat in the anchor locker with a cleat hitch.  When deploying the anchor, I just un-cleat the line and un-clip the carabiner.  I then hook the carabiner on the life line to keep it handy when re-securing the anchor.  The Mantus sets quickly and holds very well.  I used to have a Delta Fast Set which was also good.  One thing I noticed with the Mantus (good).  I notice it's takes more effort to break the Mantus free over the Delta in the same anchoring ground.  My guess is it digs in better (deeper).  Not that the Delta didn't, I just notice more force to break it free. In it's day, I think the Delta was pretty good.  But the new anchor designs now seem better.  Just look at the types of anchors you see on other boats as you walk down the dock.  You don't see traditional plows anymore (Delta, or the antique CQR).  Most you see now are the newer generation anchors.  Another point....  there's a consignment shop in the town where we dock (Rock Hall, MD).  If you want to buy a CQR or a Delta, go there.  There has to be at least 20 of those for sale.  Seems like people are getting rid of those and buying the new designs.
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pbyrne

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #20 on: August 02, 2020, 01:57:43 PM »

The tape is a good suggestion.

How do you have your chain attached to the chain?

I'll second the recommendation for Mantus anchor. My 35 lb model has always set reliably on the first try, and held very well. It was the first thing I bought for the boat, because I didn't fully trust the anchor that came with the boat.

As others said, the Maxwell gypsy kit is no longer available - you're stuck with a capstan. As I understand it, you can't even replace the whole windlass without doing major surgery on the anchor locker. Maxwell's current models will not fit in the same footprint.

If you really want to crank the chain up with the capstan, you could also consider doing a couple wraps of Gorilla tape around the capstan to protect it (and provide better grip on the chain). That's what I used to do, though I did have to replace the tape every 4-5 times I used it. But with only 16' of chain (which is about what I have), you could just pull the chain part up by hand once it reaches the capstan. That's what I do now, and getting a Mantus should make this easier since I'm sure it will be lighter than your old CQR. If I had an emergency situation that required me to pull it up real fast, I could pull the chain up with the capstan, but I always avoid that due to potential damage to the chrome.

I second the recommendation to ditch your swivel - it's not needed with nylon rode. But I'd suggest going one further: Splice your rode directly to the chain so you don't even need a shackle or thimble there. Do a 5-6-7 tapered rope-to-chain splice with three strand nylon.  Side loads are terrible on swivels, and not particularly good on shackles or thimbles either. So just splice the rode to the chain, and it will go through your roller like buttah! And if you're in an emergency situation and don't have time to pull your chain up manually, the rode-chain splice will pass around your capstan much more easily without possibly damaging the fiberglass near the capstan.

How to do a 5-6-7 rope-to-chain splice: https://youtu.be/chM39bZ3QXg

As for others' comments about the Mantus taking more force to release from the bottom, that's a good thing, though I've never noticed it. In calm conditions, I take the "slow" approach to leaving an anchorage, pulling my rode up (by hand, no windlass needed) until it's pretty much at 1:1 scope. This lifts the chain off the bottom without un-setting the anchor. I leave it like that for 15 minutes or so and go have breakfast (with anchor alarm running). After that I start up the motor and use the windlass to pull the anchor off the bottom. When doing this, the chain comes up completely free of mud, with no need to wash it off. Then I drag the anchor just under the water for a minute or so while my wife drives out of the anchorage, which gets all the mud off the anchor. If you don't anchor in mud, then this whole procedure is probably unnecessary.
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Breakin Away

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #21 on: August 02, 2020, 02:06:04 PM »

Use a good, zinc coated marine shackle between chain and anchor.

IMO, HT chain is only necessary if you want a lot of it (like >100í), and need to reduce weight in your anchor locker. For short lengths, itís counterproductive, since you want traditional heavy BBB chain to get good catenary with a short length. Just my opinion, though. I only anchor a night or two at a time in well protected places.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 02:08:23 PM by Breakin Away »
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2001 MkII Breakin' Away, #1535, TR/WK, M35BC, Mantus 35# (at Rock Hall Landing Marina)

Noah

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #22 on: August 02, 2020, 04:42:26 PM »

Probably more than you wanted to know or read, assuming the link works (no pun intended).
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/anchor-shackles-round-ii
Galvanized is better than SS. Crosby galvanized shackles have always been a good brand for me.  Again, no swivel. Rope spliced with thimble to chain and shackle to anchor chain, with seizing wire.
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 05:01:23 PM by Noah »
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Ron Hill

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2020, 05:10:29 PM »

Guys : I completely disagree with the NO swivel comments.
 
The swivel allows the anchor to do it thing when it wants to. Without the swivel - the rode (especially 3 strand) and chain which only has little ability to twist in tidal and wind changes.  This will restrict the anchor from twisting/turning to get/retain the best "bite"!

A thought - your boat your choice
« Last Edit: August 02, 2020, 05:28:53 PM by Ron Hill »
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Noah

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2020, 05:52:34 PM »

Anchoring, religion and politics are equally fraught with passionate opinions: that being said; here is some more info on anchor swivels. Some trust this testing source, some, not so much...
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/anchor-swivels-caution-required

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pbyrne

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2020, 10:28:17 PM »

Good to know! I didn't realize that.  I was trying to minimize the weight were possible.  No point in lifting if you don't need to.

I've got 3/8 chain on it now, but the shackle that's on it binds.  So new, anchor and shackle.  ALso, the thimble on the rode to chain binds in the roller as well.  It's also too large.

I want to have a smooth system that just comes up and I can lock down when on the roller.  No fuzz.

The Mantus 35lbs is step one.  I guess I could reuse the existing chain...?

Use a good, zinc coated marine shackle between chain and anchor.

IMO, HT chain is only necessary if you want a lot of it (like >100í), and need to reduce weight in your anchor locker. For short lengths, itís counterproductive, since you want traditional heavy BBB chain to get good catenary with a short length. Just my opinion, though. I only anchor a night or two at a time in well protected places.
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Noah

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2020, 01:24:11 AM »

You should be able to find the proper sized thimble For the anchor shank to chain coupling.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2020, 01:25:36 AM by Noah »
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1990 hull #1014, San Diego, CA,  Fin Keel,
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Ron Hill

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2020, 02:31:20 PM »

Guys : Don't forget that if you have a windlass with a gypsy and a capstan, that the gypsy dictates the size of the chain!!! 

Then the strength needed is whether it should be BBB/HT/etc.

A thought
« Last Edit: Today at 08:32:38 AM by Ron Hill »
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pbyrne

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #28 on: Yesterday at 08:17:47 AM »

Bought a Mantus 35, G43 5/16, 3/8 1T shackles, 5/8" rope and set it all up. 

Self launches, and goes through the bow roller like butter, with the exception that I need to contract the eyelet from rope to chain a bit as it binds a touch. 

It's like night and day.
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Ron Hill

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Re: Anchor fit
« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 03:36:42 PM »

pby : The first time the anchor resets because of a twisted chain, think about a swivel!

A thought
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