Catalina 34

General Activities => Main Message Board => Topic started by: pbyrne on July 21, 2020, 07:20:08 PM

Title: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on July 21, 2020, 07:20:08 PM
New to me MKII.  Anchor will not retract onto roller without shackle getting stuck and I have to reach through the pulpit to fiddle around and get it through.  This is not easy to do at the best of times, and very difficult for smaller crew!

The issue is pretty clear, however I could use some recommendations on how to make the anchor and rode I do have work.  I'm not well versed on what makes up a good anchoring system.

I'm also open to suggestions on a new anchor etc, however I'm hoping there is a way to reuse the existing setup.

It's around a 1 1/2 inch chain, and 3/4 inch rode.

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Noah on July 21, 2020, 07:50:22 PM
Just a few observations.
1. You have a huge plow anchor. Could probably save weight, size and get better holding with a "new" generation style such as a Rocna or Manson Supreme.

2. Chain is measured by diameter of the chain link, not across the the entire link. Looks like you have 3/8 in. chain, which is large for our boats, but not out of the question for extra security. I use 3/8 myself. A bit big for windlass, but....

3. Try rotating your anchor roller bail (big stainless U-loop attached to roller) 90 degrees, probably make docking the anchor easier. It is not intended as a hold down to keep the anchor on the boat. Use a tie Down line for that purpose.

4. I would remove the swivel. Not needed unless you have all chain rode and even then controversial as to needed as could add a weak point.

That all being said: lots of differing opinions in Forum re: anchors and ground tackle.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Stu Jackson on July 21, 2020, 09:25:11 PM
Welcome.

Your post is very helpful and the pictures are superb.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that either of two things happened with and to your anchoring system:

1.  Your PO did a LOT of anchoring early in his career and brought his old CQR anchor with him from his last boat

2.  Somebody sold you a boat with anchor gear that he never used on this boat and took the good stuff with him

Mark IIs, IIRC, came with Delta anchors and 5/16" chain to fit the windlasses which came with the boats (perhaps not the early 1994-6 boats, don't know for sure, but certainly all the rest - check the tech wiki for price lists).

I may get flamed for this, but

---  The CQR should be removed from your boat if you want to sleep safely at anchor.  Why?  It's either oversized to hold properly or is the right size for your boat, in which case it will fail.  They are 1940s technology.

--- Unless you're doing a circumnavigation, the chain is way oversized for a C34

---  Lose the swivel

Does the chain match the windlass?

You can learn a lot about anchoring SYSTEMS in the 101 Topics.

You could start with these:

Anchor Selection 101  includes good discussions of various system selections and pictures of new generation anchors on bowsprits both short and extended http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4457.0.html

Why NEW GEN Anchors are Better:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.msg19651.html#msg19651

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Swivels http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.msg30400.html#msg30400

Our primary interest, as you may know, is your safety.  We also have some experience in helping folks learn to make their own choices.

I've found, without a windlass, that sizing the system to the task is important.  But even with a windlass, matching the rode to the mechanical assistant is critical.

Good luck with enhancing your system.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: skyward on July 22, 2020, 03:35:51 AM
I have a 5/8" rode and 16' of 5/16" chain on a 25lb Danforth. My 96 has a very short bow roller setup so it seems impossible to hang the anchor while cruising, so I have to pull the anchor in by hand in between the headsail furling gear and the pulpit so that the anchor can sit inside the locker. I'd love to get rid of the Danforth and get an extended bow roller.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Roc on July 22, 2020, 06:37:42 AM
As others say, it may be better to get new design anchor.  I have a Mantus.  If you want to solve your CQR fit, it looks like the bale is not letting the joint to pass.  Maybe getting a bale with a higher opening would help.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Stu Jackson on July 22, 2020, 06:41:19 AM
skyw,

It would help us to help you if you shared your hull #.  And where you sail.  In this case, too, is the anchor there for only safety or do you like to anchor out a lot?

Please read the links I provided above one of which includes a discussion about what Steve Dolling (aka waterdog) and I call our "toy bow rollers."  We have found them to be excellent for reasons included in those texts.  You don't necessarily need an extended roller.

If, however, you want to keep your danforth, then yes, either that or a hanger on the bow pulpit, which is a bit cheesy for a C34.  I did it on our C22 and C25.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: skyward on July 22, 2020, 01:55:33 PM
Thanks, Stu. I figured out how to set up my signature (hope it worked!). We love to anchor but we have tidal and soft/loose ground here in the NYNJ area. I will look at the posts you mention. I'm a newbie here, so thank you for the tip.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Ron Hill on July 22, 2020, 02:20:11 PM
Jeff : You need to look at the sites that Stu mentioned for anchors. It appears to me that on your top picture that the CQR stock is too long will never pull back into the anchor well any further!!  Most new anchors have a shorter stock.

To keep the weight down I went to 1/4" High Tensile strength chain.  I also recommend that you switch to 1/2" braid on braid rode.  The 3 strand gets stiff after a few years and hard to work with.  The braid on braid rode always stays nimble and easy to store in the Anchor Well.

In your area you should probably carry 2 anchors. One for your mud bottom and one for north of you where it's rocky!!

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on July 22, 2020, 06:56:54 PM
Thank you! All good info.  I didn't realize that was how you measured the chain.  The windlass gets bound up with the chain, and that didn't seem right.  It seemed pointless to me to have a mechanism that would only do part of the job.  Now I know why.

Quote from: Noah on July 21, 2020, 07:50:22 PM
Just a few observations.
1. You have a huge plow anchor. Could probably save weight, size and get better holding with a "new" generation style such as a Rocna or Manson Supreme.

2. Chain is measured by diameter of the chain link, not across the the entire link. Looks like you have 3/8 in. chain, which is large for our boats, but not out of the question for extra security. I use 3/8 myself. A bit big for windlass, but....

3. Try rotating your anchor roller bail (big stainless U-loop attached to roller) 90 degrees, probably make docking the anchor easier. It is not intended as a hold down to keep the anchor on the boat. Use a tie Down line for that purpose.

4. I would remove the swivel. Not needed unless you have all chain rode and even then controversial as to needed as could add a weak point.

That all being said: lots of differing opinions in Forum re: anchors and ground tackle.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on July 22, 2020, 07:14:03 PM
Thanks!  I'm happy that they've helped explain the issue so well.

The PO still helps out on the boat and we're on good terms, and he's the first owner.  I have no idea where the system came from.  It's clear now why it's been so challenging to work with!

It's a 2001 so I'm sure it came with the Delta (very nice anchor) 5/16" chain.

The windlass is mounted in the anchor locker and is a Maxwell I believe. The chain binds on it as it just doesn't have the diameter to gather the chain and it's also smooth, which doesn't hold the chain.  Not sure if there is a technique to using it with chain.

Noted on the swivel.

I will definitely read those links.  I think this is an interesting topic!

Can I ask what you'd recommend for new system though?

I'm on a fresh water river with a typical depth of 10 - 20ft in the best anchorages, but there are some great spots that are in the 30-50ft depth range.  Mud or weeds, little to no rocks.


Quote from: Stu Jackson on July 21, 2020, 09:25:11 PM
Welcome.

Your post is very helpful and the pictures are superb.

I'll go out on a limb here and suggest that either of two things happened with and to your anchoring system:

1.  Your PO did a LOT of anchoring early in his career and brought his old CQR anchor with him from his last boat

2.  Somebody sold you a boat with anchor gear that he never used on this boat and took the good stuff with him

Mark IIs, IIRC, came with Delta anchors and 5/16" chain to fit the windlasses which came with the boats (perhaps not the early 1994-6 boats, don't know for sure, but certainly all the rest - check the tech wiki for price lists).

I may get flamed for this, but

---  The CQR should be removed from your boat if you want to sleep safely at anchor.  Why?  It's either oversized to hold properly or is the right size for your boat, in which case it will fail.  They are 1940s technology.

--- Unless you're doing a circumnavigation, the chain is way oversized for a C34

---  Lose the swivel

Does the chain match the windlass?

You can learn a lot about anchoring SYSTEMS in the 101 Topics.

You could start with these:

Anchor Selection 101  includes good discussions of various system selections and pictures of new generation anchors on bowsprits both short and extended http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4457.0.html

Why NEW GEN Anchors are Better:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2705.msg19651.html#msg19651

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Swivels http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.msg30400.html#msg30400

Our primary interest, as you may know, is your safety.  We also have some experience in helping folks learn to make their own choices.

I've found, without a windlass, that sizing the system to the task is important.  But even with a windlass, matching the rode to the mechanical assistant is critical.

Good luck with enhancing your system.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on July 22, 2020, 07:17:48 PM
I think a new anchor is in the cards at the very least.  I just can't have something that heavy that binds.  It's a PITA to get it back up and sailing should be fun.

That's a nice anchor!  Even if it did pass it the shank is so long it won't go any further into the locker.

It's a monster.

Quote from: Roc on July 22, 2020, 06:37:42 AM
As others say, it may be better to get new design anchor.  I have a Mantus.  If you want to solve your CQR fit, it looks like the bale is not letting the joint to pass.  Maybe getting a bale with a higher opening would help.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on July 22, 2020, 07:22:58 PM
I should also mention that the boat came with a very nice Fortress FX 11, chain and rode as well! From memory the chain and rode are the same size as the CQR.

Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Ron Hill on July 23, 2020, 02:22:04 PM
pby : Your windless in the picture appears to only be equipped with a drum for rode.  You need a Gypsy for chain!!!

Although I have heard that if you take the chrome finish off the drum it then can be also be used for chain??

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on July 23, 2020, 02:46:24 PM
Funny you mention that.  I was literally just reading about windlasses... !

Thanks for point it out though!  It explains a lot.  I didn't really try to use it with chain anyways, but I understand now why it won't work.

Quote from: Ron Hill on July 23, 2020, 02:22:04 PM
pby : Your windless in the picture is only equipped with a drum for rode.  You need a Gypsy for chain!!!

Although I have heard that if you take the chrome finish off the drum it then can be also be used for chain??

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Noah on July 23, 2020, 03:28:07 PM
If you use a combo anchor rode with say 40ft of chain (about right amount for C34) and the rest is rope (either 3-strand, or 8-plait) your capstan/drum on the windlass will work for a rope/chain combo. Not ideal, and it may chip/wear off some of the chrome on the drum, but it will work. That's  how I do mine. Just take a couple of wraps around the drum with the chain.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Roc on July 23, 2020, 04:33:57 PM
I'm the one that said to take the chrome finish off the drum.  I got that information from Maxwell when I asked if the drum would work on chain.  The reason to take the chrome off isn't really to make the drum work better for chain, it's because the chrome will chip off and will be like shards of glass which can cut you.  That's what the Maxwell fellow told me.  So I took the drum off and gave it to a friend that worked at a machine shop.  He sanded the chrome off (he looked at me like I was nuts because I gave him a perfectly brand new chrome drum and he wondered why in the world would I want to take the chrome OFF!).

So, in using the drum for chain isn't the greatest, but as Noah said, if you wrap it around a few times, the chain bites and it will work somewhat. Years ago Maxwell did make a retrofit kit for a rope/chain gypsy for this model windlass.  But as understand, they don't anymore so you would need to buy a whole new unit.  In hindsight, I wish I bought the kit back then.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on July 25, 2020, 07:08:08 PM

Hi Roc,

What size of Mantus do you have?  I'm think of going that direction.   How has it been for you?   How did you secure it?

Peter

Quote from: Roc on July 23, 2020, 04:33:57 PM
I'm the one that said to take the chrome finish off the drum.  I got that information from Maxwell when I asked if the drum would work on chain.  The reason to take the chrome off isn't really to make the drum work better for chain, it's because the chrome will chip off and will be like shards of glass which can cut you.  That's what the Maxwell fellow told me.  So I took the drum off and gave it to a friend that worked at a machine shop.  He sanded the chrome off (he looked at me like I was nuts because I gave him a perfectly brand new chrome drum and he wondered why in the world would I want to take the chrome OFF!).

So, in using the drum for chain isn't the greatest, but as Noah said, if you wrap it around a few times, the chain bites and it will work somewhat. Years ago Maxwell did make a retrofit kit for a rope/chain gypsy for this model windlass.  But as understand, they don't anymore so you would need to buy a whole new unit.  In hindsight, I wish I bought the kit back then.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Roc on July 26, 2020, 10:57:04 AM
I have the 35lb Mantus.  Fits well on the roller, as you can see.  To secure the anchor, I put a line that has a carabiner clip on one end that is fastened to a link in the anchor chain. The other end is fastened to the mooring cleat in the anchor locker with a cleat hitch.  When deploying the anchor, I just un-cleat the line and un-clip the carabiner.  I then hook the carabiner on the life line to keep it handy when re-securing the anchor.  The Mantus sets quickly and holds very well.  I used to have a Delta Fast Set which was also good.  One thing I noticed with the Mantus (good).  I notice it's takes more effort to break the Mantus free over the Delta in the same anchoring ground.  My guess is it digs in better (deeper).  Not that the Delta didn't, I just notice more force to break it free. In it's day, I think the Delta was pretty good.  But the new anchor designs now seem better.  Just look at the types of anchors you see on other boats as you walk down the dock.  You don't see traditional plows anymore (Delta, or the antique CQR).  Most you see now are the newer generation anchors.  Another point....  there's a consignment shop in the town where we dock (Rock Hall, MD).  If you want to buy a CQR or a Delta, go there.  There has to be at least 20 of those for sale.  Seems like people are getting rid of those and buying the new designs.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Breakin Away on July 26, 2020, 06:57:56 PM
I'll second the recommendation for Mantus anchor. My 35 lb model has always set reliably on the first try, and held very well. It was the first thing I bought for the boat, because I didn't fully trust the anchor that came with the boat.

As others said, the Maxwell gypsy kit is no longer available - you're stuck with a capstan. As I understand it, you can't even replace the whole windlass without doing major surgery on the anchor locker. Maxwell's current models will not fit in the same footprint.

If you really want to crank the chain up with the capstan, you could also consider doing a couple wraps of Gorilla tape around the capstan to protect it (and provide better grip on the chain). That's what I used to do, though I did have to replace the tape every 4-5 times I used it. But with only 16' of chain (which is about what I have), you could just pull the chain part up by hand once it reaches the capstan. That's what I do now, and getting a Mantus should make this easier since I'm sure it will be lighter than your old CQR. If I had an emergency situation that required me to pull it up real fast, I could pull the chain up with the capstan, but I always avoid that due to potential damage to the chrome.

I second the recommendation to ditch your swivel - it's not needed with nylon rode. But I'd suggest going one further: Splice your rode directly to the chain so you don't even need a shackle or thimble there. Do a 5-6-7 tapered rope-to-chain splice with three strand nylon.  Side loads are terrible on swivels, and not particularly good on shackles or thimbles either. So just splice the rode to the chain, and it will go through your roller like buttah! And if you're in an emergency situation and don't have time to pull your chain up manually, the rode-chain splice will pass around your capstan much more easily without possibly damaging the fiberglass near the capstan.

How to do a 5-6-7 rope-to-chain splice: https://youtu.be/chM39bZ3QXg (https://youtu.be/chM39bZ3QXg)

As for others' comments about the Mantus taking more force to release from the bottom, that's a good thing, though I've never noticed it. In calm conditions, I take the "slow" approach to leaving an anchorage, pulling my rode up (by hand, no windlass needed) until it's pretty much at 1:1 scope. This lifts the chain off the bottom without un-setting the anchor. I leave it like that for 15 minutes or so and go have breakfast (with anchor alarm running). After that I start up the motor and use the windlass to pull the anchor off the bottom. When doing this, the chain comes up completely free of mud, with no need to wash it off. Then I drag the anchor just under the water for a minute or so while my wife drives out of the anchorage, which gets all the mud off the anchor. If you don't anchor in mud, then this whole procedure is probably unnecessary.

Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on August 02, 2020, 01:56:20 PM
I bought the Mantus 35lbs.  Now I need to puzzle out the rest of the system.

What is your setup?  I keep hearing to loose the swivel, however I'm not sure what the recommendation is to secure the anchor shank to the chain.  I see Mantus sells something https://www.mantusmarine.com/mantus-swivel/.

At the moment I think it's going to be 5/16 HT chain, and 5/8 rode.

Quote from: Roc on July 26, 2020, 10:57:04 AM
I have the 35lb Mantus.  Fits well on the roller, as you can see.  To secure the anchor, I put a line that has a carabiner clip on one end that is fastened to a link in the anchor chain. The other end is fastened to the mooring cleat in the anchor locker with a cleat hitch.  When deploying the anchor, I just un-cleat the line and un-clip the carabiner.  I then hook the carabiner on the life line to keep it handy when re-securing the anchor.  The Mantus sets quickly and holds very well.  I used to have a Delta Fast Set which was also good.  One thing I noticed with the Mantus (good).  I notice it's takes more effort to break the Mantus free over the Delta in the same anchoring ground.  My guess is it digs in better (deeper).  Not that the Delta didn't, I just notice more force to break it free. In it's day, I think the Delta was pretty good.  But the new anchor designs now seem better.  Just look at the types of anchors you see on other boats as you walk down the dock.  You don't see traditional plows anymore (Delta, or the antique CQR).  Most you see now are the newer generation anchors.  Another point....  there's a consignment shop in the town where we dock (Rock Hall, MD).  If you want to buy a CQR or a Delta, go there.  There has to be at least 20 of those for sale.  Seems like people are getting rid of those and buying the new designs.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on August 02, 2020, 01:57:43 PM
The tape is a good suggestion.

How do you have your chain attached to the chain?

Quote from: Breakin Away on July 26, 2020, 06:57:56 PM
I'll second the recommendation for Mantus anchor. My 35 lb model has always set reliably on the first try, and held very well. It was the first thing I bought for the boat, because I didn't fully trust the anchor that came with the boat.

As others said, the Maxwell gypsy kit is no longer available - you're stuck with a capstan. As I understand it, you can't even replace the whole windlass without doing major surgery on the anchor locker. Maxwell's current models will not fit in the same footprint.

If you really want to crank the chain up with the capstan, you could also consider doing a couple wraps of Gorilla tape around the capstan to protect it (and provide better grip on the chain). That's what I used to do, though I did have to replace the tape every 4-5 times I used it. But with only 16' of chain (which is about what I have), you could just pull the chain part up by hand once it reaches the capstan. That's what I do now, and getting a Mantus should make this easier since I'm sure it will be lighter than your old CQR. If I had an emergency situation that required me to pull it up real fast, I could pull the chain up with the capstan, but I always avoid that due to potential damage to the chrome.

I second the recommendation to ditch your swivel - it's not needed with nylon rode. But I'd suggest going one further: Splice your rode directly to the chain so you don't even need a shackle or thimble there. Do a 5-6-7 tapered rope-to-chain splice with three strand nylon.  Side loads are terrible on swivels, and not particularly good on shackles or thimbles either. So just splice the rode to the chain, and it will go through your roller like buttah! And if you're in an emergency situation and don't have time to pull your chain up manually, the rode-chain splice will pass around your capstan much more easily without possibly damaging the fiberglass near the capstan.

How to do a 5-6-7 rope-to-chain splice: https://youtu.be/chM39bZ3QXg (https://youtu.be/chM39bZ3QXg)

As for others' comments about the Mantus taking more force to release from the bottom, that's a good thing, though I've never noticed it. In calm conditions, I take the "slow" approach to leaving an anchorage, pulling my rode up (by hand, no windlass needed) until it's pretty much at 1:1 scope. This lifts the chain off the bottom without un-setting the anchor. I leave it like that for 15 minutes or so and go have breakfast (with anchor alarm running). After that I start up the motor and use the windlass to pull the anchor off the bottom. When doing this, the chain comes up completely free of mud, with no need to wash it off. Then I drag the anchor just under the water for a minute or so while my wife drives out of the anchorage, which gets all the mud off the anchor. If you don't anchor in mud, then this whole procedure is probably unnecessary.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Breakin Away on August 02, 2020, 02:06:04 PM
Use a good, zinc coated marine shackle between chain and anchor.

IMO, HT chain is only necessary if you want a lot of it (like >100'), and need to reduce weight in your anchor locker. For short lengths, it's counterproductive, since you want traditional heavy BBB chain to get good catenary with a short length. Just my opinion, though. I only anchor a night or two at a time in well protected places.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Noah on August 02, 2020, 04:42:26 PM
Probably more than you wanted to know or read, assuming the link works (no pun intended).
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/anchor-shackles-round-ii
Galvanized is better than SS. Crosby galvanized shackles have always been a good brand for me.  Again, no swivel. Rope spliced with thimble to chain and shackle to anchor chain, with seizing wire.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Ron Hill on August 02, 2020, 05:10:29 PM
Guys : I completely disagree with the NO swivel comments.
 
The swivel allows the anchor to do it thing when it wants to. Without the swivel - the rode (especially 3 strand) and chain which only has little ability to twist in tidal and wind changes.  This will restrict the anchor from twisting/turning to get/retain the best "bite"!

A thought - your boat your choice
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Noah on August 02, 2020, 05:52:34 PM
Anchoring, religion and politics are equally fraught with passionate opinions: that being said; here is some more info on anchor swivels. Some trust this testing source, some, not so much...
https://www.practical-sailor.com/sails-rigging-deckgear/anchor-swivels-caution-required

Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on August 02, 2020, 10:28:17 PM
Good to know! I didn't realize that.  I was trying to minimize the weight were possible.  No point in lifting if you don't need to.

I've got 3/8 chain on it now, but the shackle that's on it binds.  So new, anchor and shackle.  ALso, the thimble on the rode to chain binds in the roller as well.  It's also too large.

I want to have a smooth system that just comes up and I can lock down when on the roller.  No fuzz.

The Mantus 35lbs is step one.  I guess I could reuse the existing chain...?

Quote from: Breakin Away on August 02, 2020, 02:06:04 PM
Use a good, zinc coated marine shackle between chain and anchor.

IMO, HT chain is only necessary if you want a lot of it (like >100'), and need to reduce weight in your anchor locker. For short lengths, it's counterproductive, since you want traditional heavy BBB chain to get good catenary with a short length. Just my opinion, though. I only anchor a night or two at a time in well protected places.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Noah on August 03, 2020, 01:24:11 AM
You should be able to find the proper sized thimble For the anchor shank to chain coupling.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Ron Hill on August 03, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
Guys : Don't forget that if you have a windlass with a gypsy and a capstan, that the gypsy dictates the size of the chain!!! 

Then the strength needed is whether it should be BBB/HT/etc.

A thought
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on August 13, 2020, 08:17:47 AM
Bought a Mantus 35, G43 5/16, 3/8 1T shackles, 5/8" rope and set it all up. 

Self launches, and goes through the bow roller like butter, with the exception that I need to contract the eyelet from rope to chain a bit as it binds a touch. 

It's like night and day.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Ron Hill on August 13, 2020, 03:36:42 PM
pby : The first time the anchor resets because of a twisted chain, think about a swivel!

A thought
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Breakin Away on August 13, 2020, 08:08:28 PM
Quote from: Ron Hill on August 03, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
Guys : Don't forget that if you have a windlass, that the gypsy dictates the size of the chain!!! 
OP has no gypsy, only a capstan. And gypsy conversion is not available.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on August 19, 2020, 01:44:25 PM
I admit, I'm uncertain about the swivel.  I don't anchor anywhere the boat will rotate around the anchor.  It's a river with a constant current.

That being said, my hesitation is what I've read, and that there are people in the St Lawrence that I spoke to that don't use a swivel either.  Probably because it's not tidal, and current again.

I supposed connecting the swivel via some chain to the anchor shackle, and the other end to the chain would resolve the side loading I've read about...

Quote from: Ron Hill on August 13, 2020, 03:36:42 PM
pby : The first time the anchor resets because of a twisted chain, think about a swivel!

A thought
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on August 19, 2020, 01:46:09 PM
Funny you should bring that up.  I'd like to go full chain if I can.  Seems like that's the simplest way to make the best use of the windlass. 

Is there a replacement for the windlass available?

Quote from: Breakin Away on August 13, 2020, 08:08:28 PM
Quote from: Ron Hill on August 03, 2020, 02:31:20 PM
Guys : Don't forget that if you have a windlass, that the gypsy dictates the size of the chain!!! 
OP has no gypsy, only a capstan. And gypsy conversion is not available.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: pbyrne on August 19, 2020, 01:49:53 PM
For anyone interested, here's how it looks and fits on a MKII.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Ron Hill on August 19, 2020, 02:08:16 PM
pby : Look Great - a prefect fit!!  I have a Bruce and I've found that you need a shock cord from the front of the anchor to something inside the anchor well to keep the anchor tight.  With out that shock cord the anchor will wobble around in the bow roller.

The only reason that I mention a swivel is because chain twists.  I cruise in the Chesapeake where the tide and wind will turn the boat 180 degrees maybe a couple of times!!  Every spring on the hard, I even pay out my 50 ft of chain to make sure there are no twists (even though I have a swivel) and then haul it all back into the anchor well!! 
When anchoring I usually pay out the 50' chain and then 10-15 ft of nylon just to give a better ride on anchor!

A few thoughts
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Stu Jackson on August 19, 2020, 05:45:27 PM
I recommend never using shock cord to retain your anchor.  I almost lost my new Rocna years ago outside the Golden Gate 'cuz a bouncy ride strained it beyond its capacity, and it was thick shock cord.  I put a Johnson cleat on the pulpit lower rail and lasso the hoop of the Rocna to it with 3/8" line.  Hasn't budged in decades now.
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Stu Jackson on August 19, 2020, 08:36:02 PM
Quote from: pbyrne on August 19, 2020, 01:44:25 PM
I admit, I'm uncertain about the swivel.  I don't anchor anywhere the boat will rotate around the anchor.  It's a river with a constant current.

That being said, my hesitation is what I've read, and that there are people in the St Lawrence that I spoke to that don't use a swivel either.  Probably because it's not tidal, and current again.

I supposed connecting the swivel via some chain to the anchor shackle, and the other end to the chain would resolve the side loading I've read about...

Quote from: Ron Hill on August 13, 2020, 03:36:42 PM
pby : The first time the anchor resets because of a twisted chain, think about a swivel!

A thought

The nonsense about swivels makes my head swivel.

They are simply extra places for failure.

There is ample discussion about this on many forums.  Most of us don't anchor for that long in the same place for it to be an issue, as it would be for a permanent mooring.

Our own 101 Topics has one that gets into it, where Maine Sail suggests that they are not necessary.

Gee, Maine Sail.  Who would know...???

Anchor System Sizing Tables (Reply #6) & Swivels http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4990.msg30400.html#msg30400

I have been anchoring in reversing currents for the past 23 years with this boat and 18 years before with other smaller Catalinas.  I think swivels are bull pucky.  Completely.

Just my opinion, of course.

Your boat, your choice.  :D
Title: Re: Anchor fit
Post by: Ron Hill on August 20, 2020, 08:54:37 AM
Guys : As Stu pointed out, I do not want anyone to think that a shock cord is a way to secure your anchor in the bow roller.
I screwed into the inside of the anchor well, a bracket that has a hole on either for a pin.  You put a chain link in the center and then put the pin thru the side holes with the pin going thru each side and the link in the center.  That secures the anchor and chain.

The shock cord I'm talking about - is that the anchor can still wiggle around in the bow roller and wear the roller itself.  The shock cord stops that wiggling!!  It attaches to the front of the anchor and I secure the stretched other end in the anchor well.  Works Great !!   :thumb: