Mystery Antifreeze - Ideas welcome!

[rmbrown]

Gang... I was at the boat yesterday afternoon and pulled the steps to take a peak at the engine.  I found a couple of cups or so of coolant in the otherwise clean sump.  This wasn't there when I winterized engine.  I checked the overflow bottle and it's indeed low by approximately the same amount.  I'm headed back tomorrow.  Any ideas on what to look for or what might be the issue?

It's odd to me since there was no leak when the engine was last used and it's all come out since it was winterized.  Nothing could have pressurized the system except something freezing and I have my doubts about that one.

Some ideas of what to look for/at welcome!

[Dave Spencer]

Mike,
The same thing happens to me every winter. I lose all the coolant from my overflow bottle and it ends up in the sump under the engine.  In the summer, I barely go though 250 ml of coolant even though I run approx 100 hrs per season.  Is suspect overall shrinkage in the cold weather creates a small leak somewhere in the system. The plastic overflow bottle appears to be particularly vulnerable to shrinkage and resultant leaks but the area below my bottle shows no signs of a leak.  I suspect a leak at the heat exchanger hose connections.  This spring I plan to snug up all the coolant hose clamps before I commission the engine for the season.  Also, next winter, I'll empty my overflow bottle to reduce the leak potential there.

[Ron Hill]

Mike : Cut a fuel diaper to size and slide it under the engine.  It will tell you (by the spots) where oil, fuel, antifreeze, etc. is leaking from!!

A thought

[rmbrown]

Dave:  That's madness but gives me hope.

Ron:  My gut feeling is I'd have to catch it early because this much coolant would saturate it, but it's a cheap experiment I'll run tomorrow.

[KWKloeber]

Mike that would drive me nutty not knowing exactly the source was. 

Even if you tighten up whatever whatnots you can find, maybe in fall you can try to isolate sources (just in case the correct whichever isn't tightened.)

Stuff, cover, tape (as appropriate) pcs of rags or paper towel or diapers around/or under the Hx, the coolant pump inzie/outzie, the overflow reservoir, AND around the coolant cap and hose, etc?

You might also try a pressure test?  I would think that if it's a leak location that opens when it's cold enough, then it might also reveal itself under pressure on a cold engine -- go up to the 15 or so PSI.

Ken

[Ron Hill]

Mike : I'm sure that anti freeze didn't squirt out all at once, I'm sure it was drip after drip!!

A thought

[rmbrown]

Turns out the 7/8 elbow between the thermostat housing and pump was actually a decent clamped 1" hose.

I ripped all coolant hoses off for replacement except water heater hoses since they've clearly been replaced relatively recently.

When I disconnected the hoses from the heat exchanger, I was horrified to find that the brackets that had once held it on were missing.  It was hanging by the hoses and wearing and slightly dented from banging on the engine.  The tech that worked on it last year put a rag between it and the engine to "protect" it.

[KWKloeber]

Turns out the 7/8 elbow between the thermostat housing and pump was actually a decent clamped 1" hose.

Mike,

Watcha elbow/hose are you referring to? 
The only hose between the Tstat and the pump, is the small bypass hose (which is removed and replaced with the water heater lines.)

How typical. Hey, at least the Tech cared enough to "protect" the Hx, 'eh? 
Do you have (used to) the single horizontal bracket or the two vertical brackets (straps)?

ken

[Stu Jackson]

Turns out the 7/8 elbow between the thermostat housing and pump was actually a decent clamped 1" hose.

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Mike,

This one?  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7084.msg47677.html#msg47677

Re: your HX...similar thing happened to me with the straight bracket.  Here's that story and some sources for replacement if needed.

Heat Exchangers 101:  Sources for replacement  Good Guys at Sendure

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6920.0.html

[rmbrown]

I mispoke... I meant the thermostat housing and the exhaust manifold.

I have no idea what I used to have.  I paid a pro to take it off and clean it out.  There's evidence that there used to be a bracket or a pair of brackets, but they, and the bolts that held them in place, are MIA.  The mechanic tells me he put it back like he found it.  Given that the boat is 25 years old, I suppose it was removed and not replaced years ago.  My plan is to order a new one from Catalina Direct unless someone has an alternate parts source to recommend?

Also, where would you guys order hoses (the couple of molded ones at least), fuel and oil filters, etc?

Anyone know the size of the bolts that held that bracket in place?

And lastly, for now at least, I found the nipples on the coolant pump to have scaly deposits on them.  Normal or trouble?  All the others are clean.

[rmbrown]

Thanks Stu!

[KWKloeber]

Mike:

the thermostat housing and the exhaust manifold.

Mike I just use a wire-wound hose section -- works fine (see photo.)

I have no idea what I used to have.  I paid a pro to take it off and clean it out. 
Anyone know the size of the bolts that held that bracket in place?

I asked because Universal used three different bell housings/Hx mounting types.  A single bracket that sits on a HORIZ buss on the BH (I think what Stu describes), double brackets (straps) that bolts to the VERT face of the BH, and a different kind of HORZ bracket (that I have) goes onto two bell housing bolts.  The M35 parts manual shows only one type.

Your pic shows it's the type that the manual doesn't list.  I had a set from a customer's Hx who didn't need them (they are supplied with a new Hx) but I can't locate them.  They are about $30, give or take.

I can't tell the bolt size, as the manual doesn't show your type Hx and bell housing.

Also, where would you guys order hoses (the couple of molded ones at least), fuel and oil filters, etc?
And lastly, for now at least, I found the nipples on the coolant pump to have scaly deposits on them.  Normal or trouble? 

I prefer Shields wire-wound hose 250 Series or corrugated 252 Series (makes a tighter bend) from about any marine supply.

I pasted my list of filter equivalents below. I prefer Fram or FleetGuard lube and FleetGuard fuel and FleetGuard fuel.
My Kubota equipment dealer recommended FleetGuard fuel.

Clean the pump with RydLyme (I prefer) or Lime-A-Way.

Cheers,
Ken

Oil filter    
Fleetguard   LF3462
Fram    PH3593A
Purolater   L14459
WIX   51064, 51334
NAPA   1064, 1334, 21334
AC    X-88, PF1127
CARQUEST   85452
Delco   PF1127
Universal   300209
Kubota    70000-15241

Secondary Fuel filter   
Fleetguard   FF5226, FF42003; 65% efficient @ 2u; 82% efficient @ 10u; 98.67% efficient @ 20u

Fram   P7514  C6921; 82% efficient @10u; 97% efficient @20u
Universal   298854   ? nom; 25u abs
WIX   33389 / NAPA 3389   "10u nominal" – "We don't supply beta ratios"
Purolator   F50262
AC   TP1200
Hastings    FF1119
CARQUEST 86390, 86582
Kubota  15221-43170

Primary filter
Racor 120 (rated 15 gph)
Racor R12S "2u" element - NOT!   99% or better @ 4u

[Ron Hill]

Mike : Here a "Tip" that I wrote about years ago:
Always look for hose chaffing especially along the port side of the Universal engines. 
Take a piece of clear 1" water hose and split it length wise.  Slide it over the hose to be protected (between the hose and the engine) and wire tie it in place.  You might even wire tie it to help support that protected hose if it's a long unsupported run. 

A few thoghts

[rmbrown]

Thanks, all!

[Dave Spencer]

Ken,
What is that interesting looking PVC pipe arrangement in the background of your picture?