Need Advice on a CAT 34 I'm looking to Purchase.

[Ryanmcgrim]

I absolutely love the layout of the Catalina 34. Staying on one a few years ago really made me fall for the model. Everything just felt right on that boat, and I especially loved the aft head and cabin situation. It just feels like the perfect setup. I've been saving for the last year for a sailboat that I plan to both sail and live-aboard, but unfortunately my budget for a purchase (while keeping enough leftover for maintenance, storage, dockage etc) is $20,000 or under. Because of this I am definitely priced out of Catalina 34s.

I had all but settled on a Pearson 323 because they sail great, they're made well, and aside from feeling a bit more cramped than a Cat 34,  I really like the layout.

However, recently a Catalina 34 has come up locally that was donated to a church to sell. They are asking $19,000 for it.  The only thing that I know about it is that it has an original motor (m25xp with 1,333 hours) and it was sailed frequently until 2015. It's been on the hard winterized under shrink wrap for the last 2 years, however the engine is always run for "at least 8 hours non stop once a year" then re winterized according to the disclosure from the precious owner . It has original Sails, which have been repaired many times, and I am told "all systems working 100%".

I was able to visit the boat a few days ago to get a look.

Here is a link to the Album https://photos.app.goo.gl/eC8uzUmS3ys7PD9k1

There was a lot that looked great about the boat, and a lot that didn't. My photos are mainly on what didn't look good.  All the wiring looked like it had been refreshed recently and installed well, and all living areas were well kept and well taken care of. The deck was also in very good condition (besides the chain plate and stanchion repairs).  I am trying to get an assessment of how this one compares to the other boats  on this amazing board, and get an idea as to what might be in store for me if I end up purchasing it, and whether or not this seems like a good buy.

The chain plates all seem to be leaking, there is what looks like some pretty serious keel weeping with the catalina smile, and the bilge looks terrible and rusty (although the bolts don't look that bad). There are two places of significant rot on the interior wood paneling, shown in the pictures to the right corner and left corner of the VHF unit, and one single spot on the starboard size, but not anywhere else on the entire boat. Every other inch of the boat's interior wood seems strong and dry, with no signs of damage.

Many of the stanchions look like they were poorly rebed but there is no crazing around them and they are all very firm. I did not feel any soft spots on the deck. The Entire rest of the boat seems fairly solid. The standing and running rigging look good and all of the winches move very very well (As do the seacocks). I'm a somewhat talented shade tree mechanic (do my own timing belts, suspension, brakes etc) and am also fairly talented at most anything DIY, so I'm not worried about labor intensive projects that I can do on my own, but I do want to know how bad this one looks compared to what you all have. It seems like this is a good deal even with new sails, chainplate replacement, and keel resetting factored in, but if the chainplates are so bad that the deck needs a recore, that would be way out of my comfort zone. Even though the motor supposedly runs very well, it looks terrible. The oil pan almost looks like it's rotting away and there is oil and belt spray all over the rest of the engine. The oil looked fine, but it was recently replaced. Any input that you folks could give me on how this 34 looks, and how the price of 19 compared to what she's likely to need in the near term. Am I just getting my hopes up because I love Cat 34s so much and I'm desperate to make this one work, or is this a potential diamond in the rough? Should I be interested in this one?

I've spent many many hours researching on this message board, and have read all of the stickied information, including the buying guide written by the gentlemen selling his amazing 86 CAT 34 for $39K a few years back. It's just hard to compare the one I am looking at to his, since his IS BEAUTIFUL.

Thank you all so much for your time.

Ryan

[KWKloeber]

Ryan

Before talking about any of the things wrong.... you mention 20k up front with "enough leftover for maintenance."  What is your budget for for that? Say right off the bat, 1st and 2nd year, and then say annually over 5-6 years?

You aren't looking at "maintenance" to bring her up to a "better" standard, you are looking at a bunch of FIXING over the short and medium term.  You won't be able to do it all yourself very quickly, but then it doesn't need to be done all in year 1.  Where are you?  Will you seasonally be on the hard and how much time will there be (climate) to do a "X" repairs annually, or are you in the water and in addition to slip fees will pay on top for yard time? Or will you set her at home and tinker with her until she's in better shape?  Lots of questions and most revolve around your money and time availability situation.  email me privately if you don't feel comfy broadcasting that.  Luckily my 1984 C-30 was in good shape when I bought her, but over the years there's been untold cash out the pocket on repairs and upgrades, not even counting "maintenance."

The most expensive are engine, sails, and standing rigging -- presuming the hull is sound you can do without hot water, perfect cushions, and a bunch of other creature comforts and still sail her -- and fix up over time.  Since the rigging is down so you can get a full inspection done.  I would plan on pulling the engine out of the hiding space and at least cleaning an a good look over to what has to be done, and pulling the pan.  Sails?  Just figure on replacing them from what you describe.  You might find some used and recut them to get you thru for a while.  Depends a lot on where you are.  Do you have a loft than can inspect them?

Ken

[Ryanmcgrim]

Thanks for the reply Ken. My original plan was to continue to save and search for the right boat over the next year / year and a half, then hopefully move aboard full time, year round. However for this particular boat, since it popped up out of nowhere, I would purchase immediately, and keep on the hard for as long as needed until being able to move onto it. I am thinking that realistically that wouldn't be until Spring of 2019. I have about $26,000 total in "Boat Fund" right now but that should be closer to $30,000 by the end of the year, so the Idea would be that after purchase I would have about $8,000 to put towards storage, fees, maintenance and improvements over then next year and a half and towards making it liveaboardable. If it ended up being significantly more than that, I would have to dig into my safety net / savings, which I really don't want to do. However, once I am able to move aboard, I will have roughly $12,000 a year going into my boat fund in perpetuity, which will need to pay for all maintenance, repair, improvements and slip / storage fees etc. Basically anything boat related. Let me know if this didn't answer your question, and if you think this is a realistic plan.

EDIT: Forgot to mention that I am in New England, and looking to eventually live aboard year round.

[scgunner]

     Ryan,

       Right off the bat let's assume you can afford the maintenance fees(storage, slip, insurance, etc.) because if you can't this thread is pointless. Those fees will be about the same weather the boat is a wreck or it's Bristol. If you get this boat for 19k you'd better figure on spending that much again to get this boat to where you want it. The good news is you can spread that out over quite a number of years. In the first couple of years you can spend lots of BS&T and hundreds not thousands of dollars at this point. Also if your going to liveaboard I've spend the money up front to make it as comfortable.

[britinusa]

Never mind the big stuff, it's the amazing cost of the little stuff that gets the title 'Surprise'

We have spent more on the boat than it originally cost us, but well worth it. We know we have a brick house and all of the stuff we have done is going to last a decent while, (Hopes)

Would I do it again? Absolutely - the only difference is that I would do it knowing that I was going to spend more than I planned, except, I didn't plan! We jumped at it.

Now my wife groans when we plan to take the boat out and don't go due to rotten weather.

When I retired, folks that knew me wondered why I would 'buy a boat that would cost a lot for sure', my reply was "I'm not going to sit behind my belly watching dr. phil"

Staying slim 

Paul

[Jim Hardesty]

Should I be interested in this one?

That may be the toughest question ever posted here.  One way to do it would be to hire a surveyor that would produce a "current value" and a problem list with a ball park cost of repair each.  Have no idea what a surveyor would charge for that, hundreds for sure.  Insurance or the bank may require it anyway.  Something to find out.  You may have the skills and time to do a DYI survey.  Put it on a spread-sheet and see how it looks.  Try to get it boiled down to money.  Then make your decision. 
My previous boat was bought from a pawn broker out of long term storage for a very low price.  I put a lot into it, total new steering, engine mounts, furling and a lot of TLC.  Served me well for 6 seasons.  Sold it to a friend for low market price, still was a small profit. Not counting my hours of work.  He is still sailing it and very happy. My point is, it is doable.  Having said that I've seen more project boats never finished, only passed down from one dreamer to another each loosing money and time.
Keep us posted.
Jim

[scgunner]

     Ryan,

        Is that price 19k firm or can you make a low ball offer? I don't think people are going to be lining up to jump on this project(at this point it's a project not a boat). Remember every thousand you can get off the asking price is a thousand that can go into the boat. Don't fall in love with this boat(at least until you by it). If you make a low ball offer don't be afraid to walk away if it's rejected, there are a lot of C34s out there. You can find a really nice C34 for 35k, you're only 15k away which you can save up or finance.
         Even if you buy a really nice boat it's unlikely it will be just the way you want it, so at some point you'll want to make changes and upgrades $$$. The plus side of this boat is you're starting from square one so when you get it done it'll be exactly the way you want it.

[NewToTheRoad]

Ryan,
  Most C34's MK1's that I see out there are 30 - 45K range.  I have seen a few come up for sale in the 20's and yours at 19 is the lowest I have seen.  I agree with the last response.  List out the upgrades that you want to make to turn it into a liveaboard and see where your total shakes out.  Then decide if it's worth it.

   If you think so, and you want the project, you could offer the church $15k contingent on survey.  Get the survey.  Might be around $500.  Not sure where you are but based on how things go you might want to mandate a sea trial as a last step.  All this helps to minimize your risk.  If they take $15k then you have $15K for upgrades and storage right?  Yes it will add up but if you do your own labor it will go a long way.

   I got my C34 last year and the survey came in at $25K.  I paid quite a bit less.  Everything worked and engine had less than 1200 hours.  With a bit of elbow grease she cleaned up nicely.  I had similar leaks port and starboard that the original owner neglected.  They are from the the vent tubes that go up through the stanchions, a common C34 problem that can be fixed by rebedding stanchions.  Had original rigging and 20+ year old sails.  Also very basic like it came from the factory - no battery charger, inverter, refrigeration, heat\ac, autopilot, windlass, radar, gps, or large battery bank.  However, being a day sailor it worked fine for me.  Yours being a liveaboard might mean you need or want many of those things.  I pulled the trigger because I wanted to sail a C#$ NOW - not in 1.5 years.  My thought was that upgrades could come over time, as needed, if ever.

     Regarding your math.  You say you have $26K now but $30K by end of year.  IMO being at $30K almost puts you at striking range for the boats being offered at $35-45K.  So if you pass on this one there will likely be another in the next 1.5 years in better, liveaboard condition.   What about additional boat fund savings during the next 1.5 years prior to moving aboard?  Won't you be able to be adding more $ to your boat fund over that time?  Are you figuring that in?  If so why not get to $35-40k savings and get an upgraded C34, non project boat?  If you don't plan on sailing anyway for the next 1.5 years why not wait and get the C34 that you dreamed of, with much less risk?

    I guess it really comes down to assessing your liveaboard needs, seeing what an upgraded C34 similarly equipped would cost you, and then working back to the church boat from there. 

Bryan

[Noah]

My learned facts about boats, after having owned many and  lived aboard some as well.

1. Very hard to take the emotion out of boat purchase and ownership (and sale).

2. Budget: Always more to fix and maintain than you plan.  Almost never a good financial "investment".

3. Live-aboard life is not for everyone.  It's a boat, not a house. You will need to pair down your possessions and your expectations of comfort. Limited storage and refrigeration (particularly on C34). Maybe pay for offsite storage locker too. Will experience a more "intimate" relationship with the weather. Think long walks to use the marina head and shower and/or lots of pump outs; sitting out storms down below with all hatches and ports closed.  In your area will probably need heat and A/C. Securing your live-aboard stuff for every sail.

These observations are not meant to discourage you by any means, just food for thought from a longtime boat owner—who keeps coming back for more! 

[Jim Hardesty]

Securing your live-aboard stuff for every sail.

From what I see live-aboards sail less.  Who wants bounce and tilt their house.  They rarely go out for an afternoon sail or round the buoys race.  Not to say they don't enjoy their boats, they sail mostly to move their home to a different local.
Just my observation,
Jim

[Mas Tequila]

Ryanmcgrim,

When you say that you're looking to live aboard what are you thinking that might encompass? Are you looking to be staying at the marina most of the time and sailing locally or are you thinking about cruising? If you're going to be staying at a marina you can get by with pretty basic systems because you should have shore power and fresh water available. If you are thinking about cruising and spending long periods on the hook you're going to be looking at a number of upgrades that can really run up your costs.

One thing to consider is since this boat was donated, the church that now owns it might be quite flexible on the selling price, after all they have nothing invested. They will however incur storage costs the longer they sit on it. I'm also guessing that it is unlikely that they are willing to pay the costs of getting it ready for a sea trial. Cost of having the rig put back up, launch fees and slip fees while they wait for a buyer are going to add up pretty quickly. You just might find that they would be happier with $10,000 in their pocket now rather than waiting and incurring costs hoping to get more out of it.