Crimping Tool for 8 and 6 AWG Wire

[mark_53]

I'm wondering if an auto shop would be something?

Try West Marine.  I think they let you use their crimper.

Yes they do. 👍

But you have to do it in store.

[KWKloeber]

I'm wondering if an auto shop would be something?

Try West Marine.  I think they let you use their crimper.

Yes they do. 👍

But you have to do it in store.

And buy expensive WM cable and inferior Ancor lugs!!!

k

[Stu Jackson]

IIRC, WM would let you use their crimper without having to buy their stuff.

[KWKloeber]

IIRC, WM would let you use their crimper without having to buy their stuff.

Probably so -- I know that I took my existing battery negative jumpers to NAPA and the guy recrimped them for nada.  But then again, I bought other stuff at the time.
I guess we've all bought enough expensive stuff from WM over the years but somehow I wouldn't feel comfy doing a bunch of crimps w/ my supplies.  One or two I suppose.  JTSO.

k

[KWKloeber]

Ken, thanks so much for taking the time to check this out. Sorry I haven't got back sooner, it's been busy for me. The lugs are like the type in your photos. I originally tried the smaller #8 with a plastic collar in my hand crimper (but it only goes as large as #10) and I destroyed the lug and the wire was still loose, so no go.

I'm back up at the boat this weekend to do the winterizing, so I'll check back with the marine to see if their big crimper could do the #6, now that I know to look for a legend to explain the numbers. It still leaves me with figuring out how to do the #8s. I'm wondering if an auto shop would be something?

Fred, timing perfect, I tested the crimps only at midnight last night!

If you are going to do ANY more #16 - #10 AHS terminals/butts (and what boater isn't?), I would AT LEAST get a new die for your China crimper frame.  See pic #2 below.  That's a Hobby Fright crimper frame (like 10? bananas on sale) with a #22-#8 AHS terminal die.  Not what I use, but just an example that one can get decent DIY (tho not professional) AHS crimps on the cheap side. 

OR if you are a serious DIY get the AHS terminal crimper that RC sells.  You can see the cavities (#3 below) make a MUCH nicer, confined, and secure crimp (#4 left) vs the typical AHS crimp (#4 right.)  Rod did a SUPER job designing that for Sargent/Oetiker  to make for him -- I wish he'd also do a standard die set with the same configuration (HINT HINT).

Pricey but worth it if you want a man toy.  Otherwise use your frame.  (for #8 I will not use AHS terminals, only #8 lugs.) Yours didn't do a #8 insulated terminal because it's not made for that, only Sta-kon type terminals

Reasonably priced pptions on the #8 AND #6, are get a Greenlee K05 (not my go-to tool for the best looking crimp, but it does work.) Or the smaller FTZ.
OR for #8, get a better frame (more leverage) and a hex die for #8 lugs.  That's what I use.  Or a dimple type die which your China frame might have enough leverage for.

(also not my 1st choice, but it works.)  Again, if I know what you can spend I can recommend better-er.

ken

[Fred Koehlmann]

Alas, Westmarine left Canada a year ago. We have a lot of pissed boaters up here, cause its gotten harder to find stuff. Mostly we go online and buy from the Binnacle. There some smaller mom &pop shops in every city, but they're typically too small to have a complete invetory and often have to order in.

[Ron Hill]

Fred : On the larger wire I used a Klein crimper and then soldered (Belt & Suspenders).

A thought

[mainesail]

OR if you are a serious DIY get the AHS terminal crimper that RC sells.  You can see the cavities (#3 below) make a MUCH nicer, confined, and secure crimp (#4 left) vs the typical AHS crimp (#4 right.)  Rod did a SUPER job designing that for Sargent/Oetiker  to make for him -- I wish he'd also do a standard die set with the same configuration (HINT HINT).


ken

Ken,

Been working on that front for a long while. My Taiwanese manufacturer, the only one I really can trust in China/Taiwan and I have visited about 18 of them, most of whom are flat out liars, wants an MOQ (minimum order quantity) of 6000 pieces for a custom die set (requires a casting mold and then custom machining as the die can't be done via casting alone as many Chinese dies are.).. At my volumes this is just not going to happen or the price of each die set will be more than the PRO-HST and then no one will buy it.. I also have about $3000.00 already invested in prototypes, some with US companies and some with Taiwan, and every one has failed to meet the design spec for the crimp nests. 

My American manufacturer, for a custom die, also puts the pricing comparable to the cost of the PRO-HST but they will not make a die to fit the Taiwanese frame. I have also talked to about a dozen other us manufacturers/machine shops/short run production facilities and my cost is in excess of $120.00 - $135.00 per die set. I can get this down to about $90.00 US but the MOQ goes to about 750-1000 pieces. All of this means the customer is now into a very expensive, but also very good, American made modular crimp frame and dies or a Taiwanese frame, with unique die shape but still, in the end, exceeding the cost of the PRO-HST. Bottom line is that good quality crimp tools are simply not "cheap" to produce.

I would love to sell all American made crimp tools, I have tried, but boat-owners simply will not pay for that quality. Pro's will, because they understand what a good crimp means and is, but far too many DIY's fail to see or understand these subtleties.

There is a reason I call my pro line "PRO" and that is because about 95% of my orders for those tools are going to professionals. Heck I sell about 25:1 of the Taiwanese made HS tool over the much better quality US made PRO-HST tool. I used to offer the US made version of the Taiwanese HS tool, the same tool AMP sells, but I sold only two of them in the same period I went through approx 150 of the Taiwanese made knock-off tool,. Even when I was literally giving away the US made tool, at a 4% margin, it still did not sell.. The US made tool is better but folks simply would not pay the premium... My belief is that the US DIY buyer is being fooled by "look-a-like" tools and these look-a-like tools make it very hard to invest in inventory that won't move fast enough, even at the very low margins I am at, to justify the inventory expenses. I really HATE buying and importing from Taiwan but the US buyer drives the market so I choose my manufacturers and tools very carefully and put them though testing before ever offering them to my customers..

I can sell a very, very excellent US made tool for 8-2GA but most owners would never pay for it's quality as it is well over $200.00. I have a number of tools that will do 8GA to 6GA and up but none of them are "inexpensive" and "quality" at the same time. The tools I use personally on these sizes are all US Made premium quality tools.

I will be heading down to my US manufacturer in a few weeks to discuss some new products (for my PRO line) to go over some new CAD drawings with them. Crossing my fingers.

[KWKloeber]

Rod

I haven't ordered one yet, but I saw what I recall was probably an open-barrel die that, if the teat was carefully filed down, looks exactly like your PRO's cavities.  I don't have -dies, as I use an old Radio Shack really dedicated crimper that makes sweet crimps for those. It on my list to order one of those dies and measure the cavities.  Wonder if......

BTW, I just found an AMP Bantam and a Ilisco for 110 each!!!  We'll see how used they are when they show up.  They both look sweet in the use category.

ken

[mainesail]

You'll love that Bantam Rota-Crimp. it is my most used crimp tool for lugs. When you get it take it apart, clean it, lube it and then adjust it per AMP instructions. it really is a virtually indestructible tool.

[KWKloeber]

You'll love that Bantam Rota-Crimp. it is my most used crimp tool for lugs. When you get it take it apart, clean it, lube it and then adjust it per AMP instructions. it really is a virtually indestructible tool.

Ya, I got it based on your prior discussion about it, BTW. Thank you.

FWIW, I have been able to virtually indestruct a lot of tools over the years.    Bad karma?
Could you email those instructions? I'd be forever full of great.

Part of my thought process was with it's size, instead of selling the FTZ, to (possibly like our cutlass pushers) use it as a loaner/rental with cable and supplies purchases, since getting crimps done seems to be such an impossible find.  If it's as bullet-proof as you say that might swing the pendulum.

k

[mainesail]

You'll love that Bantam Rota-Crimp. it is my most used crimp tool for lugs. When you get it take it apart, clean it, lube it and then adjust it per AMP instructions. it really is a virtually indestructible tool.

Ya, I got it based on your prior discussion about it, BTW. Thank you.

FWIW, I have been able to virtually indestruct a lot of tools over the years.    Bad karma?
Could you email those instructions? I'd be forever full of great.

Part of my thought process was with it's size, instead of selling the FTZ, to (possibly like our cutlass pushers) use it as a loaner/rental with cable and supplies purchases, since getting crimps done seems to be such an impossible find.  If it's as bullet-proof as you say that might swing the pendulum.

k

But the Bantam won't do anything larger than a 1/0 so the FTZ is a must keep unless you also get the AMP Rota Crimp... I do a hell of a lot of 2/0 and larger thus the larger AMP is a must. I do use the FTZ from time to time, like when it is wet or raining or I need to go do work on one of the islands and it's a rough wet ride in the work boat...

My Rota Crimp actually survived over a year submerged in 35' of water. I thought it was gone for good. My friend is a diver and he found it one day with a HUGE magnet.... I cleaned it, serviced it and sent it out for re calibration and it needed nothing. It hardly had any rust when it came up as it was in over 3' of soft silt..

[KWKloeber]

Rod

I didn't mean to imply that I'd EVER give up the FTZ. Most, but not all, the folks who buy materials from me are in the 4-6-8 range so it makes sense to use Bantam as a loan/ rent tool.  Besides, once you own a man tool you never get rid of it cuz keeping it is always no-cost. d:-)

K