SELLING... help

[Capt.Jim]

last 2 months I've spent about $20,000 to make it perfect.
Bottom paint and whole bottom is about 1 month old.
Brand new Raymarine Autopilot.
M25XP fully serviced incl oil, filter, exhaust box change.
Whole lifelines and whole running rig replaced.
Boat is in impeccable ready to sail shape!
Brand new batteries and whole electrical system upgraded.
New water pump.
Refrigerator.
Whole boat detailed and waxed.

Any ideas?

Pics available upon request...

[Noah]

What's your question?

[Capt.Jim]

LOL, Good question...
What would be the fair market price for this C34?

[Jon W]

Selling so soon, I thought you just bought the boat?

[Capt.Jim]

Yep, for a personal reason.
Just bought and made the boat 99% perfect but now I need to sell it unfortunately.
I wish I didn't... 

[KWKloeber]

Jim

The honest answer is only as much as on any given day, a particular buyer is willing to pay.  Do a search (if in the marine trade you know the sites) filter by region to be more accurate.  Use "pending" sale as a guide, understanding that all listings are the "unsold price," not the value of the boat.  Understand two things
* Reported sale prices are typically inflated (to the brokers' benefit to not adjust the listing price to the actual sale price.)
* You'll get back no labor (sweat or hard) and maybe 1/4 of your hard costs -- and if it's a fire sale, deduct even more. 
JTSO.

kk

[Stu Jackson]

Jim,

1.  Where is the boat located?

2.  Pictures?  Inside & out.

3.  You are missing the provision of every single important detail.  I suggest that you review the ads here:  C34s For Sale, right on this forum:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/board,35.0.html  Sue Clancy's ad explains what would be the right amount of information required, to not only make an educated guess, but for YOU to figure out what YOU want to ask, before anyone can even begin to think of its value.

4.  Ken's right:  selling anything used is serendipity:  the buyer and seller have to come together.  Like real estate:  location, location, location.  In addition to that, for a boat its:  condition, condition and condition.

5.  What's an "exhaust box change?"  Using incorrect terminology, especially with this very knowledgeable group of skippers, just won't help you at all.  Another example:  new batteries - big deal; what kind and how big would be necessary to explain, i.e., 2 Grp 27s vs. 4 Trojan T105s makes a BIG difference.

6.  Nobody's gonna care how much you spent in the lat few months on the boat.

7.  No boat is perfect.

8.  "...whole...running rig replaced"  - do you mean standing rigging?  Reason I ask is that it is on the same line as the lifelines, which are metal.

9.  "...and whole electrical system upgraded" - to what?  What does this mean?

10.  The lack of specificity makes me wonder about the work performed (by just reading your descriptions - which is what any prospective buyer would read, right?).  This is not to say it wasn't done, or not done properly.  But if I was buying a used car, if the ad said inline 6 in a Mustang, I'd worry.  You evidence pride in your boat and the work you've done, and I know it's difficult to part with her.  But if you want to get any nibbles, you simply have to improve your descriptions so someone has some kind of rational idea about the good things you've done. 

[mark_53]

Move the boat to where the buyers are. A boat that needs to be transported is worth that much less to a buyer that can drive it away.

Just curious, did to ever get to actually sail it?

[Capt.Jim]

Jim,

1.  Where is the boat located?

2.  Pictures?  Inside & out.

3.  You are missing the provision of every single important detail.  I suggest that you review the ads here:  C34s For Sale, right on this forum:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/board,35.0.html  Sue Clancy's ad explains what would be the right amount of information required, to not only make an educated guess, but for YOU to figure out what YOU want to ask, before anyone can even begin to think of its value.

4.  Ken's right:  selling anything used is serendipity:  the buyer and seller have to come together.  Like real estate:  location, location, location.  In addition to that, for a boat its:  condition, condition and condition.

5.  What's an "exhaust box change?"  Using incorrect terminology, especially with this very knowledgeable group of skippers, just won't help you at all.  Another example:  new batteries - big deal; what kind and how big would be necessary to explain, i.e., 2 Grp 27s vs. 4 Trojan T105s makes a BIG difference.

6.  Nobody's gonna care how much you spent in the lat few months on the boat.

7.  No boat is perfect.

8.  "...whole...running rig replaced"  - do you mean standing rigging?  Reason I ask is that it is on the same line as the lifelines, which are metal.

9.  "...and whole electrical system upgraded" - to what?  What does this mean?

10.  The lack of specificity makes me wonder about the work performed (by just reading your descriptions - which is what any prospective buyer would read, right?).  This is not to say it wasn't done, or not done properly.  But if I was buying a used car, if the ad said inline 6 in a Mustang, I'd worry.  You evidence pride in your boat and the work you've done, and I know it's difficult to part with her.  But if you want to get any nibbles, you simply have to improve your descriptions so someone has some kind of rational idea about the good things you've done.

Stu, I love your usual and expected brash style!

1) Moss Landing, CA / Monterey Bay

2) I have a damn Mac and iPhone and have no clue how to reduce the file size of the pictures and even if I do I have no patience to sit in front of computers for hours to fiddle with that. Life is too short to do things you hate in my opinion. But if anybody wonders I can email them the picture files via regular email system.

3)Even though every boat pricing includes the hundreds or even thousands of little parts like bolts, nuts, fuses, wires, cords, lines, filters, electronics, etc. still there is something called a fair market value which I wanted an opinion from those skippers with the ultimate experience. Now, you have to perform a blind survey and determine the value of my boat. Basically what I am saying is that the this specific C34 does not need a bottom paint nor has any blisters or Catalina smile or new lifelines or even TLC... I assume most of the boats' general condition could be categorized between 1 to 5 stars. 1 being a "fixer upper" and 5 being "like new"... So I just wanted a general opinion what is considered a fair market value for a boat which can be categorized as 4 stars?

4) Moss Landing, CA - Moss Landing, CA - Moss Landing , CA and ****, ****, ****   ;)

5) Muffler !!! Sometimes I get brain freeze while I am writing my original post. Sorry!

6) That is not for them to "care" but to realize and picture that a lot of maintenance issues were being taken care of recently. A part of the description for a buyer from a distance. If I was considering to buy a power boat and if I hear or read at description the boat went under $20,000 engine rebuilt process last month (compared to at 2010), I will add that one to the top of my list of boats to be considered just for that reason.

7) Good(!) philosophical point but who or what does this help?

No running rig was short for running rigging (lines, halyards, sheets, etc). Every imaginable one is replaced and also that ugly looking lifelines changed for those new and bare wire system.

9) My post here was not an ad designed for explaining what is on my boat or what has been done to it, to the prospective buyers but instead give a general idea to those very knowledgable skippers here. Since one of the most major issues here were described as the Electrical System Upgrade for 87 and earlier C34s under the heading something like "do these or watch your boat go down in flames", I meant those upgrades were done and it should be easy to understand for those skippers here who helped me a lot to get that job done. You know the ammeter to voltmeter change at the control panel, starter wires to replaced with heavier gauge ones and re-routed by a shorter distance. 2 x 27 AGM batteries replaced with old ones and a fully automatic AGM battery charger added.

10) If I consider you as a buyer I will give you the right description, make and models numbers and even serial numbers of the equipment installed. BUT, my intention to give a "general" idea for how clean or good the boat is in a word or two. Again my question stands as "what does the 80% boats going for these days?" as a fair market price. I do not necessarily expect an answer to my question here something like $42,850... Or whatever the offered number/s, it does not mean I will put that price on my boat. I mean if somebody says between 37,500-42,500, I may still end up listing her for $35,000 or $45,000... But at least I will know if I am being realistic or not.
That's all.

[Capt.Jim]

Move the boat to where the buyers are. A boat that needs to be transported is worth that much less to a buyer that can drive it away.

Just curious, did to ever get to actually sail it?

Where are the known buyers? I mean I bought her where it is now. How am I supposed to know who and where is the next buyer going to be? Or do you mean move the boat to a larger area like San Francisco bay or Los Angeles area where more prospective buyers are possible lurking around?

I was able to sail her once... It was a good day! Since then rain, storm, my other boat's maintenance issues, USCG inspections... I couldn't even go to the boat!

[Noah]

Find yourself a reputable yacht broker. Despite what some folks say there are many in CA where they are regulated, bonded, etc. They will research the comps, past SALES NOT JUST LISTING PRICES and current listings, BUC book, Yachtworld, etc., and help you determine a realistic value, based upon, year, condition, equipment, quality of upgrades, local market competition. AND possibly a survey. Also check online listings. You MAY also have a stigma to overcome with some buyers, if they suspect your boat was purchased as a "quick flip." So be prepaired with an explaination to address this.
Good luck.

[Capt.Jim]

Find yourself a reputable yacht broker. Despite what some folks say there are many in CA where they are regulated, bonded, etc. They will research the comps, past SALES NOT JUST LISTING PRICES and current listings, BUC book, Yachtworld, etc., and help you determine a realistic value, based upon, year, condition, equipment, quality of upgrades, local market competition. AND possibly a survey. Also check online listings. You MAY also have a stigma to overcome with some buyers, if they suspect your boat was purchased as a "quick flip." So be prepaired with an explaination to address this.
Good luck.

Thanks buddy. I am planning to do that.
I was just wondering in here if anybody recently sold or heard someone bought a C34...
Internet is useless in searching recent prices since final sale prices are not disclosed.
In all honesty, I have a few different sources for the $ I need and the boat is one of those assets I can liquidate. If I can obtain the $ I need from one of the other sources then I will keep the boat...

[Noah]

I disagree with your statement that "the Internet is totally useless". IMO most serious/realistic listings are sold for no less than 10% of a discount at sale, unless there are some strange dynamics at work. A good broker doesn't gain anything (except unhappy sellers and a longtime on the market), by highballing the listing price.

[Capt.Jim]

I disagree with your statement that "the Internet is totally useless". IMO most serious/realistic listings are sold for no less than 10% of a discount at sale, unless there are some strange dynamics at work. A good broker doesn't gain anything (except unhappy sellers and a longtime on the market), by highballing the listing price.

Oh no, what I meant was the, in order to learning the final sale price internet is useless. Otherwise if your goal is determining a price range range, yeah you are right.

[Clay Greene]

There are seven 1987 Catalina 34s for sale on Yachtworld right now and the average list price is $43,319.  The top end is $49,900 and the low end is $37,500.  These are all dealer-listed boats so I would expect that most of these list prices are based on some knowledge of selling prices and the local market for this type of boat.  If I was trying to get a ballpark estimate, I would look at those seven boats and make an honest assessment of where my boat stands compared to those examples.  As noted above, I would expect to see that the selling price is 10-20 percent below the list price. 

A broker will be able to look at their screens on Yachtworld and tell you the entire price history up to the point of sale, including the amount of time that the boat was on the market.  That would be very helpful information to you if you are looking to sell your boat quickly. 

I don't want to be the bearer of bad news but I don't think that your recent investments are going to increase the price of the boat all that much.  A well-maintained engine and secure standing rigging are sort of expected when you buy a boat.  Flashy items like new electronics, sails, exterior canvas are going to draw more attention. 

One thing that always astonishes me is how little attention brokers and sellers give to a fundamental issue - basic cleanliness.  I can't tell you how many boats we walked away from after opening a companionway and smelling mildew or pulling up the bilge boards and finding three inches of black standing water.  It's just a sign of owner care and attention, or lack thereof.  I also cannot believe how many people try to sell their boats when they are jam-packed with all of their belongings.  Boats should be staged for sale just like houses.