Head Shower Drain Hose, C34 II

[Dale Stone]

Hello, Read a thread on this topic as I would like to get at that drain fitting and replace the hose and clamp. I am replacing all the braided hose as they seem to weep from the hose edge. And I am trying to eliminate a cabin odor which does not involve the holding tank and the shower drain has a reputation for a peculiar smell. So my boat has a rubber floor panel behind the galley which extends to the head entrance. It needs to be removed so I can drill an access hole as described in the forum thread of a few months ago. The panel screws are removed but the panel is caulked in around the edges. It is stubborn and I do not want to damage it. Does anyone have experience removing this rubber floor panel?
Thanks

[Jim Hardesty]

I am trying to eliminate a cabin odor which does not involve the holding tank and the shower drain has a reputation for a peculiar smell

Before you do a lot of work may I suggest you find the problem.  I think the number one cause of odor in a clean boat is the waste hose permeated.  The check for that is to clean a section of the hose nearest the smell, take a wet rag with warm water, wring it out, wrap it around the hose, let it cool, remove it, smell.  If you can smell the odor that's the problem.
This is from "Get Rid of Boat Odor"  by Peggie Hall.  A book I highly recommend.

I'm not sure but I think that if you remove the floor cover the only thing you will see is a fiberglass floor.  If you really want to change the hose you need to snake it through.

Jim

[Dale Stone]

Hi Jim,
The problem so far was delaminated and wet plywood under the galley and battery box. Apparently a hose or more hoses were leaking for years from the braided ends and a clamp that was not installed well. All of the hose and the plywood is removed and the bilge and several other places have been cleaned. All the cushions have been removed and they had the same smell when stacked in my garage. The cushions have since been professionally cleaned and I think are OK now. I removed the head and electric pump, (the pump was leaking too). I removed the holding tank vent from the stanchion. A smell test of the vent hose and the main head hose to the holding was "no odor". That was a surprize. The odor is much better but still lingers. In the spring, I will clean all insides.
I like your test. Are you smelling the hose or the rag?  I'll look for the book, thanks for the reference.
Further investigation suggests the rubber floor panel is vinyl glued to plywood. I will need to confirm that. I would drill an access hole in the fiberglass beneath to expose the hose clamp on the shower drain. I saw a nice description of how to put it all back together in the forum. I really want to replace all the braided hose after seeing how most of the hoses weeps fluid at the ends with a tight clamp on the fitting.
Thanks for responding
Dale 

[Stu Jackson]

And I am trying to eliminate a cabin odor which does not involve the holding tank and the shower drain has a reputation for a peculiar smell.

I suggest that before you go to major surgery there you heed Jim's advice.  Peggie recommends a product called CP for "Cleans Potties" and I have used it in the shower sump and it works.

You should also assure that your shower sump check valve is working properly.  If it is not, you will always get backflow into the sump from the line to the pump, which in itself could cause the problem with too much standing water in the sump.

I'd try anything but surgery for the issue you described, at least first.

Peggie's book is very worthwhile to have on board.  Get it on Amazon or here:

http://shop.sailboatowners.com/prod.php?53615/The+New+Get+Rid+of+Boat+Odors

That leaking at the ends of hoses means someone messed up the install by over tightening the clamps or using the wrong sized barbs or hose.

[Dale Stone]

Thanks for the link, I will get the book. Agreed about the poor hose installation and I am suspecting all the hoses now. Did not find a check valve in the line unless it is under the floor panel and can't be seen. I will put one in when I redo it in the spring.

[Breakin Away]

Braided hoses, as a general rule, should be no more prone to leakage than other hoses.

It's especially rare for drain hoses to leak, since they are never under any significant pressure if used properly. Which begs the question of whether you're somehow dead-heading your shower sump pump, and the resulting pressure is causing the leak. If there is a check valve, is it stuck closed? Are all valves in the path open when pumping? (Both the through hull and the in-line valve that separates the shower sump from the refrigerator drain.)

Regarding the latter, note that the way my boat is piped, the shower sump pump does not pump properly unless the refrigerator drain valve is closed at the same time the shower drain valve is open. It's possible that different boats are valved differently.

[Dale Stone]

I just purchased the boat in October and going through it. The braided hoses are leaking at the cut end, past the clamp. I think Stu is correct that the clamps are too tight or the hose ID was damaged which then allows the fluid to wick into the braid. Not all the hose ends leak but roughly 50%.
My boat is also a 2001 so likely same as yours. There are valves (PVC ball valves) that switch the shower drain off and fridge drain. I took it all out to get at the wet delaminating plywood underneath. The boat wasn't used much in the last 6 years so the leaky hoses had a lot of time to wreck the plywood. I didn't see a check valve. Thanks for the tip on the pumping procedure.

We did a sea trial before the closing. After signing the contract a week later and back on the stands, I went inside and checked out the cabin. I noticed the fridge had an icky 1" to 2" deep puddle in the bottom. That probably came from the shower drain and other connected plumbing during the haul out and it didn't smell so good.   

[Breakin Away]

If stuff is wicking through ends that were cracked by over-tightening, then you definitely need to replace the hoses.

A little bleach solution left overnight can fix a lot of odor problems. Peggie Hall has a recipe that's used for freshwater systems, and I'd expect it to be effective in your shower drain and refrigerator drain also:

http://trudelutt.com/linker/phall_freshwater.pdf

You might do this before replacing your hoses. At the very least, it might make the work environment a little more pleasant by killing the odors before you start to pull things apart.

[Jim Hardesty]

Sounds odd to me, a hose leaking at the reinforcement.  May be water was left in the hose and froze, rupturing the inside of the hose.  Just my guess.
Jim

[Dale Stone]

Good idea about killing the odor before working on it. It is better now and the boat shrink wrapped for the winter. I left it so it can breath.
I will be working on this bought all next year. The big splash will come in "18. My Pearson 27 (for sale) will be my get away next season.
Just bought the book and will read it before next spring.

Jim, You might be right about the expansion creating the leaks.

Thanks to all that responded and Happy New Year!

[Ekutney]

Dstone,

Like others have suggested... adding home port, year & hull number are nice to know when responding to your post.

I have had my 1986 C34 for just about a year & redone the entire plumbing system, both fresh water & grey/black water hoses.  Finding the source of the "smell" can be a daunting task.  Lots of crawling around & tracing all the hoses.  I agree with the comments about over tightening the hose clamps, I caused a leak on a couple of nylon barbed fitting by doing the monkey grip tighter is better method.  Live & learn I guess.

I have found the wealth of information on this site to be invaluable, experience from others can be a great resource.