Extra Thru Hull / new bilge pump

[DaveBMusik]

I currently have three thru hulls in the head: sink drain, head intake & shower drain. I am considering, as many have done, connecting the head intake to the sink drain so I have the ability to flush with fresh water at the end of the day.
This would leave me with an unused thru Hull.
I am also considering installing a second and smaller bilge pump (whale IC 650) supposedly capable of draining down to about a third of an inch.
Rather than install a new thru Hull high in the transom, what are your thoughts about utilizing the extra thru Hull in the head? I would use an anti siphon loop and below water rated hose from the siphon loop to thru Hull. I know this means leaving a thru Hull open all the time...
Any advice?

Dave

[Capt.Jim]

Fresh water flushing ? Always a good idea..

As for the 2nd bilge pump to make it possible drain water from the lowest possible point of bilge? That's a great idea too. But instead of using another free thru hull I used that option on my boat by adding a "Y" connection and manual valve...

I always use the smaller pump for bringing the water to the lowest level. In case of emergency I will switch my manual valve on Y connection and run my 2000GPH pump...
Thank God I never need to do that until now!
Hopefully I never use the larger one!   

[Stu Jackson]

1.  I currently have three thru hulls in the head: sink drain, head intake & shower drain. <SNIP>

2.  Rather than install a new thru Hull high in the transom, what are your thoughts about utilizing the extra thru Hull in the head? I would use an anti siphon loop and below water rated hose from the siphon loop to thru Hull. I know this means leaving a thru Hull open all the time...
Any advice?

Dave,

1.  You should have three thru hulls:  raw water intake, head inlet and shower sump, sink drain.  Different than what you describe.  Covered in the 101 Topics under Peggie Hall's Top Ten

2.  Not a good idea to leave an underwater thru hull open when you aren't there.

[KWKloeber]

Besides other issues, what about when there's a leak and no one's aboard? 

Wouldn't the 2000 might be able to handle a larger leak (before the battery died) and a dock mate see it and do something before there's a larger problem that the smaller pump couldn't handle?

k

Fresh water flushing ? Always a good idea..

As for the 2nd bilge pump to make it possible drain water from the lowest possible point of bilge? That's a great idea too. But instead of using another free thru hull I used that option on my boat by adding a "Y" connection and manual valve...

I always use the smaller pump for bringing the water to the lowest level. In case of emergency I will switch my manual valve on Y connection and run my 2000GPH pump...
Thank God I never need to do that until now!
Hopefully I never use the larger one!   

[Ekutney]

I plumbed my sink drain to a T valve, one path is the thru hull drain & the second is the toilet water intake.  I reach under the sink & switch the valve, fill the sink with fresh water then flush... Flushing with fresh water keeps the smell down because no small critters are left in the lines.

I'll take some pics of the setup & post.

[DaveBMusik]

Dave,

1.  You should have three thru hulls:  raw water intake, head inlet and shower sump, sink drain.  Different than what you describe.  Covered in the 101 Topics under Peggie Hall's Top Ten

2.  Not a good idea to leave an underwater thru hull open when you aren't there.

All of my thru hulls have been replaced by a PO. I have a thru hull centerline behind the keel for the raw water intake with separate drains for the shower and sink along with head intake.

I know it's not the best to leave a thru hull open but I really don't want to put yet another hole through the transom.

I really wanted to lower the amount of water in the bilge on a continuous basis but one option would be to leave the main pump on auto as it is currently is and install the smaller pump through the extra thru hull on manual to be used when I'm on board but is it worth it?

So in theory, all thru hulls should be shut when not on board. In practice, I know many, many people who don't do that. I understand that is tempting fate....


Dave,

[Ted Pounds]

I believe you always want a bilge pump to exit above the waterline...

[KWKloeber]

I really wanted to lower the amount of [water in the bilge on a continuous basis

Are you saying you have a lot of water coming in?

That begs the question................

-k

[DaveBMusik]

I really wanted to lower the amount of [water in the bilge on a continuous basis

Are you saying you have a lot of water coming in?

That begs the question................

-k

I was waiting for that question  :)

When I purchased the boat last winter, it was stored on the hard with the mast up and the bilge was consistently full from rain water down the mast.
I did not realize at the time, one of the keel bolts was leaking water into the keel stub.
The boat had a small "smile" which continuously weeped which I attempted to repair. Because it never fully dried out, my repair was not totally successful.
When the boat was launched, the process reversed itself and I suffered through the summer with a wet bilge.
With the boat now out of the water and shrink wrapped, the bilge is dry, the keel bolts have been checked and sealed, I test cored a few spots in the bilge per Catalinas direction to test the soundness of the wood between the bilge and the keel. Everything looks good and I will attack the smile in the spring.

So, I am hoping NOT to have water coming in (other than rain). I would like to reduce whatever water is there is as much as possible hence the desire for a smaller primary pump leaving my larger pump for emergency/redundancy.

[KWKloeber]

ahhhh so.  Glad to have asked :-))

You're actually pretty lucky that you had only one bolt leaking water to the stub/eventually to the joint.   
It could have been 2, 3, probably not all.  Is the smile in approximately the location of the leaker?

I suspect, and this kinda confirms my hypotheses that my 'smile', which started toward the aft, was primarily due to the keel bolt being buried under the engine and not accessible to torque.  I don't know if PO had any of the others torqued (but it sounds good anyway.) My aft nut was no more than 'hand tight' and removed with a box wrench. Had the PO even checked this as I was able to get at it, he'd have known that it was "loose."  Maybe I still have water leaking, but no external sign with the repaired joint now.  Maybe when I start to lose buoyancy I'll worry.  LOL.  Or the next PO can remove the wood (that is now under another straight (no thickener) epoxy resin leveling layer, covered by a 1/8" stainless plate to distribute the loads.)  The washers are bedded in 5200.)

I saw another method to prevent weepage -- epoxy in a PVC pipe stub over each nut (dia larger than the washer) - to form a dry cofferdam ("dry well") around each nut/bolt thread.

ken


quote author=DaveBMusik link=topic=9243.msg67905#msg67905 date=1480966219]

I really wanted to lower the amount of [water in the bilge on a continuous basis

Are you saying you have a lot of water coming in?

That begs the question................

-k

Im was waiting for that question  :)

When I purchased the boat last winter, it was stored on the hard with the mast up and the bilge was consistently full from rain water down the mast.
I did not realize at the time, one of the keel bolts was leaking water into the keel stub.
The boat had a small "smile" which continuously weeped which I attempted to repair. Because it never fully dried out, my repair was not totally successful.
When the boat was launched, the process reversed itself and I suffered through the summer with a wet bilge.
With the boat now out of the water and shrink wrapped, the bilge is dry, the keel bolts have been checked and sealed, I test cored a few spots in the bilge per Catalinas direction to test the soundness of the wood between the bilge and the keel. Everything looks good and I will attack the smile in the spring.

So, I am hoping NOT to have water coming in (other than rain). I would like to reduce whatever water is there is as much as possible hence the desire for a smaller primary pump leaving my larger pump for emergency/redundancy.
[/quote]

[DaveBMusik]

I plumbed my sink drain to a T valve, one path is the thru hull drain & the second is the toilet water intake.  I reach under the sink & switch the valve, fill the sink with fresh water then flush... Flushing with fresh water keeps the smell down because no small critters are left in the lines.

I'll take some pics of the setup & post.

I believe Stu did the same and that is my plan.
The PO must have installed an additional thru hull for the raw water intake because I have a dedicated shower thru hull under the sink along with the sink drain and toilet intake. If I move my toilet intake to the sink drain, I will have an unused thru hull. It seems to make sense, if practical, to use the extra thru hull for my additional bilge pump rather than cutting another hole in the stern.

The decision is: 1) leave the thru hull open at all times (against common wisdom) and utilize the new smaller pump as the primary with a large back-up, 2) continue to use the larger pump as the primary with the new small pump activated manually and plumbed to the extra thru hull which will be open when I am on board or 3) plug off the unused thru hull, forget a new small pump, continue to use a single large pump (no redundancy) and manually pump out any rainwater, etc.

[DaveBMusik]

Same side but one of the rear bolts and the smile at the bow. I did some cores around the bolt and it seems good so I suspect the water was coming right up the bolt through a channel above the keel and not through the wood.

ahhhh so.  Glad to have asked :-))

You're actually pretty lucky that you had only one bolt leaking water to the stub/eventually to the joint.   
It could have been 2, 3, probably not all.  Is the smile in approximately the location of the leaker?

I suspect, and this kinda confirms my hypotheses that my 'smile', which started toward the aft, was primarily due to the keel bolt being buried under the engine and not accessible to torque.  I don't know if PO had any of the others torqued (but it sounds good anyway.) My aft nut was no more than 'hand tight' and removed with a box wrench. Had the PO even checked this as I was able to get at it, he'd have known that it was "loose."  Maybe I still have water leaking, but no external sign with the repaired joint now.  Maybe when I start to lose buoyancy I'll worry.  LOL.  Or the next PO can remove the wood (that is now under another straight (no thickener) epoxy resin leveling layer, covered by a 1/8" stainless plate to distribute the loads.)  The washers are bedded in 5200.)

I saw another method to prevent weepage -- epoxy in a PVC pipe stub over each nut (dia larger than the washer) - to form a dry cofferdam ("dry well") around each nut/bolt thread.

ken


quote author=DaveBMusik link=topic=9243.msg67905#msg67905 date=1480966219]

[Ken Juul]

I currently have three thru hulls in the head: sink drain, head intake & shower drain

I think it should be engine intake, sink and shower tee'd together and head.  The swap is to switch the shower and head hoses.  Head goes on the tee so you can fresh water flush, shower goes on the other thru hull.  If it is other than that, a PO must have been at work.

My back up bilge pump is routed through the Air Con discharge thru hull above the water line.

[DaveBMusik]

I currently have three thru hulls in the head: sink drain, head intake & shower drain

I think it should be engine intake, sink and shower tee'd together and head.  The swap is to switch the shower and head hoses.  Head goes on the tee so you can fresh water flush, shower goes on the other thru hull.  If it is other than that, a PO must have been at work.

My back up bilge pump is routed through the Air Con discharge thru hull above the water line.

My raw water intake is centerline aft of the keel

[chuck53]

I made the change you are asking about a year or two ago.  Sink drain and head intake uses the same thru hull.  Makes it very easy to do a fresh water flush anytime you want.  Don't even have to close the thru hull to do it...just turn on your water spigot to full volumn.
And icing on the cake....very easy to winterize the head.  For that, I do close the thru hull and just pour pink AF into the sink while I flush the head.