Starter Battery Component Locations

[mark_53]

Hi all, I am installing a dedicated starter battery using the approach that many have suggested. This diagram by mainsail depicts the basic layout of what I am trying to accomplish.



I chose this because I'd like to isolate electronics from engine starting transients.

I have several questions about the best location for components that would give me as little wire routing difficulties as possible.

My current setup is 2ea 4D Grp 27 600CCA batteries wired as separate banks and parallel when the Perko 1-2-B is set to "Both".  They are located under the starboard settee in two battery boxes. My alternator is the factory 55Amp Motorola.  My charger is a Newmar ABC 12-15. I've installed the start battery in the aft cabin under the forward storage compartment just aft of the prop shaft.

From my reading, I will need to...

1) Move the starter cable from the "C" post to #2 post on the Perko 1-2-B switch.
2) Install and ACR, combiner, or Echo Charger from the bank #1 to the start battery.
3) Connect the starter battery ground cable to the engine block.
4) Install a on/off switch between the starter battery positive cable and the starter.
5) Wire the 2 4D house bank batteries in parallel.

My questions are...
1) Which is easier to install, the Echo Charger or ACR?  From what I read, they both work but the ACR requires a much heavier cable which may make cable routing difficult.  I'm not worried about cost since the are probably only a few $$ difference.
2) Given my location of my starting and house banks, where would be the optimum location to install the ACR or Echo Charger?
3) Where would be the best location to install the starting battery on/off switch?  I'm trying to avoid an unsightly or obstructive installation but still be easily accessible.

Thanks
Mark

[Ken Juul]

I went with the Blue Seas ACR, mainly from the BS reputation.  They earned it, replaced mine when it failed after about a year, no questions.  I had enough room to put the ACR in the main battery box.  My Start battery is also under the aft berth, I added the on/off switch on the stbd engine compartment wall in the aft cabin walk in.  It is just forward of the bunk.  Easy to access, mostly out of sight.

[Stu Jackson]

I used a combiner, from WM but made by Yandina.  The Yandina company is still in business and actually warrants its units lifetime.  I did this in 1999, before they invented ACRs.  It's a simple relay.  All will work.  The reserve/start bank rarely needs much juice even after starting the engine, so battery acceptance will control the charging.

Note that the diagram has the house bank as #1.  Not a bad idea. 

Put the VSR out of the engine space.  The cubby behind the seatback at the nav station is close to the switch.

Check Noah's posts about switch locations.

[mark_53]

I

Check Noah's posts about switch locations.

Stu:
Couldn't find Noah switch location but I was thinking of putting the battery on/off switch under the head sink, below the RACOR.
This is kind of close to a diesel source, not sure if that violates any rules.  The thing I like about this location is that it's close to the raw water thru-hull. When you open/close the thru-hull, you turn on/off the switch.

[Stu Jackson]

Mark,

Probably not a good idea, since that's where you're going to end up putting your external regulator when you get around to it. 

Better would be in the aft cabin.

HEY NOAH

Can you point Mark to your photos?

[Noah]

Having some trouble loading .jpegs they are being rejected due to some odd iPhone graphic BS formatting  issues.  Hopefully, this link will get you to my pics

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3044.0;attach=4691

My switches are in the same general  location seems as Ken Juul has his...aft cabin on engine box bulkhead next to door. I have my engine start switch as well as my emergency battery combiner switch there.
My Xantrex Duo-charge is inside the same conpartment as my water heater. I wanted to keep it out of the battery box due to possible fumes from my T-105 flooded batteries. Jon, I believe, plans on putting his Xantrex Duo under the starboard settee which is another good spot. Unfortunately that compartment for me is a "NO METAL" zone because that's where I have my autopilot rate compass mounted.

[mark_53]

Mark,

Probably not a good idea, since that's where you're going to end up putting your external regulator when you get around to it. 

Better would be in the aft cabin.

I was thinking the ACR would go in bank #1 location under starboard settee like Ken did and snake a new wire up to start battery.  I think there's room there.  Then I would have both the switch and ACR stowed and one location to open thru-hull and turn on starter battery.

[tgsail1]

Is there some reason not to put it behind the electrical panel connected directly to the 1-2-B switch? Seems like an easy location- no wires to snake. The ACR shouldn't generate much heat.

[Ken Juul]

It is not that hard to snake the wires.  Rent a conduit snake or make your own from straighted wire coat hangers.  For the best possible results, alternator/battery charger output should go directly to the house bank not through the 12B switch.  Then from the house bank, ACR/Duo Charge to the start battery. 

[Craig Illman]

The best snake I stumbled across while running wires on my C30 was a ten foot piece of 3/8" PEX. Non-conductive and you can either straighten it or introduce a bit of a bend. If you're running small gauge wire, you can push that up through the PEX, then remove the PEX leaving the wire in place. It would probably make decent conduit as well.

Craig

[Jon W]

Hi Mark,
     I can't open the diagram in your original post. Where did you find it, or can you attach to your post again? Thanks.   Jon W.

[mark_53]

Hi Mark,
     I can't open the diagram in your original post. Where did you find it, or can you attach to your post again? Thanks.   Jon W.

Jon;
The diagram is from mainsail.  It's located on this board so not sure why you can't see it.  Here is another link...
http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6604.0;attach=2989
----------------------------------------------------------

The Blue Sea SI ACR has an LED that shows it's functioning.  I can probably fit it in under the head sink where it would be easier to see (or run the remote LED someplace visible like the engine panel). There is also a voltage spike sensing connection on the SI ACR that needs to connect to the ignition switch.  Seems like that wire would be much easier to run from under the head sink.  Another advantage to having the start battery switch and SI ACR is close proximity is I can run a very short jumper from the SI ACR 13.7 volt output to the terminal on the switch.

[Stu Jackson]

Hi Mark,
     I can't open the diagram in your original post. Where did you find it, or can you attach to your post again? Thanks.   Jon W.

It's here, in the Electrical Systems 101 topic:

Basic Battery Wiring Diagrams  This is a very good basic primer for boat system wiring: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6604.0.html

Please note the discussion of the battery sense wire, especially if you have an external regulator.

There is also this about that wiring diagram:

PLEASE NOTE for Option 2: The wire from the 2 post of the 1-2-B switch is shown going to the starter; it can also just as easily be run to the lower post of the on/off switch, which is just the other end of the same wire.  The switches are usually closer to each other, resulting in less wiring.

[Stu Jackson]

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6604.0;attach=2989
----------------------------------------------------------

The Blue Sea SI ACR has an LED that shows it's functioning.  I can probably fit it in under the head sink where it would be easier to see (or run the remote LED someplace visible like the engine panel). There is also a voltage spike sensing connection on the SI ACR that needs to connect to the ignition switch.  Seems like that wire would be much easier to run from under the head sink.  Another advantage to having the start battery switch and SI ACR is close proximity is I can run a very short jumper from the SI ACR 13.7 volt output to the terminal on the switch.

Mark,

I hear you and I understand.  However, please consider my earlier point about a location for an external regulator, which you MAY come to when you upgrade your alternator.  If you never plan to do that, ignore the rest of this.   

Given the length of the wiring harnesses that come with regulators, that location is just perfect for the regulator, which, too, needs a visual check.  The only other place I've seen folks locate them is in the aft cabin.  Requires drilling holes for the wiring harness, which is in a black flex conduit, plus the "owner provided" wires needed.

You really don't need to "see" the ACR light, all you have to do is check the second bank battery voltage when you're charging.  I can say this with true conviction, since I located the "idiot light" for my combiner behind the sliding black cover just forward of the galley.  That was 17 years ago, and I find absolutely NO need to ever check the light.  I have a dual battery analog voltmeter PLUS a Link 2000 to check voltages.  I find seeing the regulator far more important.

[Jon W]

I plan to locate the external regulator under the head sink. Above and to the left of the Racor near the door there is a good spot, but there are two #10 or #12 screws about 1 inch long. They aren't attached to anything, and don't appear to be installed in any real pattern.

Anyone know if they are attaching the cabinet corner to the bulkhead or just left from something long gone and serve no purpose anymore?

Thanks. Jon W.