In-mast connector for anchor, steaming and foredeck lights

[tonywright]

Has anyone found a better connector in the mast for these lights? The factory splice for the  connector inside the  mast step  failed this year. I found that the factory had spliced in what looks like a square four-pole trailer hitch, with the splice made by twisting the wire strands together for about two inches, soldering, and wrapping with electrical tape. Two of the wires have now broken at the end of the soldered splice.  Since this connection is taken apart every winter, it finally failed.

Looking for opinions/suggestions: should I run entirely new wiring? Should I reuse these connectors with a different kind of splice, or use a different kind of connector entirely?
img][/img]
Photo is not great: you with see some remnants of silicone from an attempt to stop rainwater from draining into the bilge: this may be partly responsible for the problem above. (BTW yes, I noticed the loss of insulation from the VHF coax. I plan to use heat shrink to replace that insulation.)

Anyone found a better solution for this connector?

Tony

[KWKloeber]

Anyone found a better solution for this connector?

Tony

Tony,

Simply typical Catalina factory crap quality electrical work.  The apparent lack of any possibly semblance of quality connections and products astounds me (and continues today on new models, by the way, especially at mast connectors.) It's pathetic and shameful.  I won't even get into all they did wrong (and why) on mast connectors!

The Cole Hersee plug M-115-BP is about the best one that I have found as far as quality, superior connectors (not like the cheap "trailer-plugs" with crappy terminals that loosen and corrode, and non-tinned wire) and it's marine grade quality.  It accepts up to 12 awg and uses quality back-wired screw/pressure terminals.



The halves can be wrapped with silicone tape to waterproof it. Or with heat shrink tubing if for long term.

One thing I do not like is that the end of the two boots are not sealed.   You can either seal against a round cable using adhesive heat shrink tubing over the end of the boot, or once the wires are set, fill the entire rubber boot with quality silicone (eg, DOW 795) not bathroom tub caulk.

You can also seal against individual wires or flat cable with HST -- if you do it carefully.  As the HST sets up, squeeze near the end together with a small zip tie to squish the adhesive in between all the wires and make sure the end of the HST stays tightly closed as it cools.  I use only heavy mil spec HST for this application.

Personally when I see such work I tend to rip it all out and do it correctly the entire way.

Ken

[Stu Jackson]

Anyone found a better solution for this connector?

Tony,

A waterproof box with terminals strips and ring connectors would go a long way to solve your issue.  One of the few places I have yet to have a photo of.   

Those "trailer connectors" are also part of the OEM engine wiring harness, and are "covered" and pretty much completely trashed as anything that should ever be used on a boat in the Critical Upgrades sticky topic. 

I have what is essentially a "black box" at the base of my keel stepped mast for those wires.  The one time I pulled the stick, I simply opened the waterproof gasketed cover, unscrewed the connectors and watched the stick go UP through the hole in the "ceiling.". 

It was FUN to watch it go from down below!   

[KWKloeber]

Anyone found a better solution for this connector?

Tony,

A waterproof box with terminals strips and ring connectors would go a long way to solve your issue.  One of the few places I have yet to have a photo of.   

See bottom of:
http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Electrical


That box size I used would be complete overkill for 4 mast wires, but you get the idea.  Here's a Newmar box that's 3" x 3".  Unfortunately it has a "euro strip," which I don't care to use.


http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|344|2028705|2028880&id=978673

kk

[Jim Hardesty]

Tony,
I have the same plugs Ken suggested, they work well.  Also I go to an auto parts store and get dielectric grease, the stuff that's used on the brake and turn signal bulbs.  Use that to damp proof the connections.  Had a problem with my 2001 with dirt and stuff building up between the mast and the mast steep.  The rain water would not drain at the base of the mast, sometimes would leak for days after a rain.  Both on the deck and water would follow the wires to the bilge.  I just increased the size and length of the existing drain slot.  No problems since.
Hope this helps,
Jim

[KWKloeber]

Also I go to an auto parts store and get dielectric grease, the stuff that's used on the brake and turn signal bulbs. 

The rain water would not drain at the base of the mast, sometimes would leak for days after a rain.  Both on the deck and water would follow the wires to the bilge.  I just increased the size and length of the existing drain slot.

What C-30ers typically have is a 1" pvc pipe, embedded into the deck w/ epoxy, 2" - 3" exposed so prevent water from draining through to the compression post/bilge.  Some put an elbow on top to prevent water from draining down the cables, but if you have an excess of cables with the mast raised, it will form a natural drip loop when it is lowered onto the step.  Electrician's putty (lowe's, etc) is a good choice to seal the cables at the top of the 1" pvc - permanent yet also removable.

Some (below) have also filled the recess in our steps so that there's no place for water to accumulate against the deck.  Doesn't look like it would work with the high sides on yours -- but Tony are there drain holes / openings through the sides?



SuperLube markets a dielectric, and they confirmed to me that it's comparable to their SuperLube PTFE Gel multi-purpose synthetic lubricant 21030, which is by law required to be carried on any boat (great for lubing rubber gaskets and anything that petroleum-based will attack.)



ken

[Roc]

Ken,
So are you saying the Superlube grease can also be used as a Dielectic compound?

[KWKloeber]

Ken,
So are you saying the Superlube grease can also be used as a Dielectic compound?

ROC,

Yes the contact at SuperLube said, in not so many words, that it's the same as the dielectric product, # 91003.  I didn't save the email since she confirmed my suspicion.

Same marketing routine as Collinite's "marine wax" and "insulator wax" and "car wax" - different audiences.

cheers
ken

[KWKloeber]

Ken,
So are you saying the Superlube grease can also be used as a Dielectic compound?

ROC,

Yes the contact at SuperLube said, in not so many words, that it's the same as the dielectric product, # 91003.  I didn't save the email since she confirmed my suspicion.

Same marketing routine as Collinite's "marine wax" and "insulator wax" and "car wax" - different audiences.

cheers
ken

Correction, I did find the email   The difference is that the 21030 is more multi-purpose (with teflon).

Ken,

Thank you for your inquiry and interest in Super Lube®.  The difference in the two products is P/N 92003 contains PTFE which is a Teflon equivalent.  You can use either product for your electrical applications, no need to carry two different products.

Regards,
Debby Alagna
International Sales Administrator
Synco Chemical Corporation

[mainesail]

Has anyone found a better connector in the mast for these lights? The factory splice for the  connector inside the  mast step  failed this year. I found that the factory had spliced in what looks like a square four-pole trailer hitch, with the splice made by twisting the wire strands together for about two inches, soldering, and wrapping with electrical tape. Two of the wires have now broken at the end of the soldered splice.  Since this connection is taken apart every winter, it finally failed.

Looking for opinions/suggestions: should I run entirely new wiring? Should I reuse these connectors with a different kind of splice, or use a different kind of connector entirely?
img][/img]
Photo is not great: you with see some remnants of silicone from an attempt to stop rainwater from draining into the bilge: this may be partly responsible for the problem above. (BTW yes, I noticed the loss of insulation from the VHF coax. I plan to use heat shrink to replace that insulation.)

Anyone found a better solution for this connector?

Tony

While Catalina is not well known for their factory wiring that is nothing I have ever seen from Catalina and I work on lots of them. It could be, but is very, very, very doubtful. Course they could have hired a new electrician who likely lasted two or three days before he was fired...

Catalina uses butt splices and I have never seen them solder a junction like that. I strongly suspect this level of mediocrity was done by a PO... On another note this is EXACTLY WHY the ABYC standards say that "Solder shall not the the sole means of connection"...

I would strongly urge you to get those connections out of the mast base and into the vessel. If you must keep them in the mast please use a quality connector not some cheap Chinese product labeled as "marine". Try a 4 pin Amphenol ATP plug. You will need a special crimp tool but you'll likely never need to re-do this again if you use the right plugs to begin with....

[tonywright]

Thanks for all the great ideas and suggestions. 

Re previous owner, I know he never even took the mast down after he took possession of the boat. I bought it with just 3 seasons of use, and 43 hours on the engine. So I am pretty sure this is factory original wiring.

When we step and un-step our masts each year, we try to manage within a 30 minute window for the whole process, from entering the well to leaving with either the mast and all stays connected, or with the mast fully removed. The objective is the make all connections as quickly and securely as possible. So I prefer a quick connect at the base of the mast rather than fishing wire through the nether regions of the boat while the mast is in the air.

To answer Ken`s query, I don`t have any drain holes at the mast step.

I looked at the crimping tool, Mainesail. Over $1500 , so I think I will pass on that particular connector.  I will check out the Cole-Hersey, but have another idea for designed-in water resistance.

I have used a mil spec connector made by DDK for my masthead instruments with great success, so am thinking of turning to that solution again. Advantage is it is made to be moisture-proof and is even tested for resistance to salt spray. Not cheap connectors, probably about $50+ shipping for all the required components, including waterproof caps to protect the terminals in winter storage.   Also has clamps for the cable to take the strain off the connections, and offers crimped or soldered connections. Hopefully a standard crimping tool will work for crimping these...Here is a link to the spec page 
https://www.electroshield.com/product_specs/DDK-%20DMS-%20EFR.PDF


Any thoughts...

[KWKloeber]

I looked at the crimping tool, Mainesail. Over $1500 , so I think I will pass on that particular connector.  I will check out the Cole-Hersey, but have another idea for designed-in water resistance.

It looks to me there's an amphenol tool for $200-ish.  We used to use amp pins that were solder-the-tip, crimp-the-backside for strain, but you'd need to be good at fine soldering to not create a work harden spot.

-kk