Engine Troubles? M25XP not starting

[Stu Jackson]

Yes, thanks, Ken, for that important clarification, covered in the link's video.

[Ben H.]

Hi All. Thanks for all the feedback. I'm planning on spending more time working on the boat this weekend. Here are replies/answers to your comments mostly in the order posted.

Braxton

   
• The fuel is still the old fuel left from the previous owner. I'll bring fresh fuel with me this weekend and try starting off that.
• When bleeding fuel looked clean. No water. Fuel is pinkish, additives?
• There was a lil water at the bottom of the separator when I first started. Have not seen anymore.
• Yes, fuel pump is running. Turns on with engine key.
• Engine intake is clear. Have not checked tank vent pipe. Should I?

Claygr

   
• Pretty sure no air in line. I have not used the fuel filter bleed, but using the "wheel" bleed off the mechanical pump I can hear fuel going back into the tank.

Ron Hill

   
• To clarify, the black fluid is found inside the cylinder when injectors are removed. Fuel is more a pinkish color.

Footloose

   
• Using a new battery. I've cleaned the cable ends in the battery box, but have not cut, crimped, soldered. Engine side looks clean. Have not checked "middle" of circuit.
• I don't think wiring harness upgrade has been done.
• No relay for glow plugs.

Stu Jackson

   
• I like the idea of "bypassing" current circuits. Will try using new leads direct to starter and grounding block this weekend.
• Fuel pump is always on once the key is turned.

Jim Hardesty

   
• Thank you. I'll work on building a raw water bucket system.

SPembleton

   
• To clarify, the engine will spin via starter power. It does not fire at all. Engine turns slower then I think it should. Doesn't seem to even attempt to fire.

[KWKloeber]

Ben,

If she's truely spinning well, then concentrate on fuel, fuel, fuel.

A vacuum leak (fuel line fittings and/or at primary filter) are always a key for no starts.

If you just want to verify starting, can simply remove the impeller - no need to rig up cooling just to run it for "a few" minutes.

By the injector pump, do you have the fuel bleed knob on the XP or the bleed screw?  I have an M-25 and have the bleed fuel NOT going to the return fuel line -- when I bleed, I like to SOLO cup and look at it (false sense of security I suppose).  Make sure you have no air whatsoever remaining in fuel stream when you bleed.  If you do, back up and check for air leaks.  I had a customer working on this for weeks and I kept asking "good fuel and flow to the injector pump?" - he'd never check it, and screwed around with compression tests and glow plugs and other crap.  Turned out he picked up a (wrong) primary filter at NAPA - gasket was sucking air.  If needed, try bypassing all and get fuel directly to the secondary filter.

Bleed fuel at each injector if necessary.

Start at the last point to verify proper, full fuel flow -- then if not work backwards from the known to the unknowns.

issue points:  fuel pump filter and gasket, fuel line pick up (remove screen), primary filter should be before not after pump, air in fuel, weak flow.

Ken

[RV61]

On the raw water needs while on the hard and the weather is above freezing I use the boat water tanks with a bucket.
Raw water engine intake hose in bucket while filling bucket with head sink faucet hose in bucket.  I have also used this method when raw water intake gets clogged and can get to safe anchor or dock quickly. If you want to run extended on the hard run garden hose to water tank fill and keep filling .

[Ben H.]

I've replaced all fuel lines previously, but will double check all connections. My M25-XP has the fuel bleed knob with return line to injectors then tank.

issue points:  fuel pump filter and gasket, fuel line pick up (remove screen), primary filter should be before not after pump, air in fuel, weak flow.

Are you talking about the pickup in the tank?

[KWKloeber]

I've replaced all fuel lines previously, but will double check all connections. My M25-XP has the fuel bleed knob with return line to injectors then tank.

issue points:  fuel pump filter and gasket, fuel line pick up (remove screen), primary filter should be before not after pump, air in fuel, weak flow.

Are you talking about the pickup in the tank?

Yes p/u in the tank, no screen on the pick up - A westerbeke service bulletin) !  See the 101 list, I'm sure Stu has that on there.
Easier to replace a filter than clean a blocked screen in the tank!

I always ask "what has changed since the last time"   - hoses, so yes do double check.  Filters and o-rings/gaskets?
You can't imagine how many leave the the shut off closed!  ;-0

Try starting with the bleed fully opened so fuel recirculates.



k

[Stu Jackson]

Yes p/u in the tank, no screen on the pick up - A westerbeke service bulletin) !  See the 101 list, I'm sure Stu has that on there.

That's on Critical Upgrades.

101 has fuel bleeding techniques.

[Clay Greene]

I agree with everyone else who said that this sounds like a fuel issue.  I would start by bleeding it at the fuel filter.  That was all we needed to do when we changed the fuel filter.  Opening the little wheel never seemed to make a difference. 

[Craig Illman]

I don't recall anyone mentioning whether the glowplugs are actually heating up. Does the voltage drop when they're engaged? Have you tried a non-contact thermometer to see if the area is getting hot?  Replacement NGK's (I don't have the p/n handy) are only about $8 each.

Craig

[Ben H.]

I don't recall anyone mentioning whether the glowplugs are actually heating up. Does the voltage drop when they're engaged? Have you tried a non-contact thermometer to see if the area is getting hot?  Replacement NGK's (I don't have the p/n handy) are only about $8 each.

Craig

They glow nice and red. Checked when injectors were out.

[Ben H.]

SHE'S ALIVE!!!!!

Over the weekend the co-owner and I went to the boat to try the engine some more and we finally got her running! I've very excited about this. She sounded good too. Here is what we did.

We had previously tried new fuel and were using a "gas" can to bypass the boat's tank of old fuel. No difference in attempting to start the engine.
We suspected that maybe the injectors were not working right as the motor had sat for 5 years unused. We had access to a Kubota tractor with the land version of this engine so we swapped injectors. Still nothing new.
As a "last" try I thought well the guys online said maybe it's a bad connection in the electrical chain and to hook the battery direct to the engine. So we tried this and instantly had better results. First I noticed a higher reading on the Volt meter at the engine panel before heating glow plugs. Within a few seconds of turning the engine over she started to kick and then vrrrrrrm. We were off to the races. THANK YOU C34.org!

Our plan now is to take the old injectors to a local diesel shop that can test/rebuild them to have the original ones checked out. Then we'll put those back into the engine. I then/concurrently am going to start "rebuilding" the electrical system. I plan on reading the current post chain about upgrading the electrical system here, http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,8708.0.html. The previous owner appears to have made some changes to the original configuration and a "rebuild" will allow me to learn that setup and correct/modify it to meet best practices.

Thanks again for everyone's help.

[KWKloeber]

Are you saying battery negative directly to the engine?   Where was it-on the bell housing?
The neg cable should be on a starter bolt.

Apparently she wasn't cranking as solidly as you reported?

[Ben H.]

Are you saying battery negative directly to the engine?   Where was it-on the bell housing?
The neg cable should be on a starter bolt.

Apparently she wasn't cranking as solidly as you reported?

I wired the negative to the grounding block mounted inside the engine compartment, positive to the starter solenoid where the main positive was going.

I wasn't sure how quickly she should be cranking since I'm not very familiar with diesels. So she was definitely not spinning quick enough. I wonder if the glow plugs were even getting hot enough.

[KWKloeber]

Where were those connected previously?

She had jumpers from where to where?

[Ben H.]

Where were those connected previously?

She had jumpers from where to where?

Yes, the wires were connected previously. I haven't traced wires throughout the boat yet. I assume most of the engine compartment wiring was factory.