Engine Troubles? M25XP not starting

[Ben H.]

I recently purchased a C34 and have been working at getting the engine started. The boat has been out of water for the last 5 years. I've reviewed a lot of the posts here on the forum, the wiki, and the internet and am still not getting the engine to run. Below is a bulleted list of what I've done/seen.

• Checked that fuel is getting to the engine. Replaced all old lines for whole system and bleed.
• Checked electrical. Engine turns over slowly. Quick with decompression level on. Glow plugs glow. Cleaned battery terminals (have not cut and replaced)
• With injectors out I could see some fluid in the cylinders. I assume this is diesel from attempted starts. However the stern cylinder seems to have more then the other two. Plus the fluid is black. Could this be a sign of an oil leak?

[Braxton]

Do you know the voltage on your battery vs. what it is at the starter?    If the engine is turning over to slowly it won't ever manage to get it going.   

Will it start if you crank it with the decompression lever open and then closed quickly while it is still cranking?

[Noah]

Question from a non-mechanic. If you do get it started, how are you going to cool it while out of the water?

[Braxton]

Since he won't be able to put any load on it I expect that getting it up to temperature would be a bigger issue then cooling it.

My engine could run all day without cooling as long as I don't actually try and push the boat around.

[Ben H.]

Do you know the voltage on your battery vs. what it is at the starter?    If the engine is turning over to slowly it won't ever manage to get it going.   

Will it start if you crank it with the decompression lever open and then closed quickly while it is still cranking?

I'll have to bring my volt meter with me and check this. I have not gotten it to fire over at all yet.

[Ben H.]

Since he won't be able to put any load on it I expect that getting it up to temperature would be a bigger issue then cooling it.

My engine could run all day without cooling as long as I don't actually try and push the boat around.

Agreed, diesels run cool in general. Not planning on running long, just want to know if I have a "bigger" project on my hands.

[Braxton]

Of course I made the classic mistake of jumping to a few conclusions so to back track a bit...

A few other thoughts:

1) What is the state of the fuel?   Is it five years old or is it fresh?
2) When you bleed the fuel lines, did the fuel that come out seem like pure diesel or could it have water in it?
3) What does your primary fuel filter/ water separator look like?   Any chance you're pulling water through?
4) Is the fuel pump running?   Most of our boats will gravity feed the fuel if the tank is full but if it's low you may not be getting enough fuel through.
5) Anything restricting the air flow?   After 5 years who know what could have built a nest in the air intake :)

[Clay Greene]

Are you sure you don't have air in the fuel line?  If I remember correctly, there are two bleed valves.  One is on top of the fuel filter and the second is a wheel in the fuel line.  The bleed valve on the fuel filter is easy to miss.  Air in the fuel line was the issue every time our engine turned over but would not catch.  If the engine is turning over slowly, I also would look at what voltage is getting delivered to the starter. 

[Ron Hill]

Ben : Look at Braxton's post.  Clean fuel, clean fuel, clean fuel !!!

I doubt that the fuel tank was topped off before the boat was pulled- 5 years ago.  I suspect that if you bled the fuel lines that water may have come out.  The pickup tube draws from the bottom of the tank and any condensation collets in the tank bottom.

Look at the plastic bowl on the bottom of your Racor filter, and drain some fuel out of it (just loosen the knurled knob) into a glass jar.  The fuel will float and any water will be evident in the bottom of the jar.  You might want to pump out the old fuel thru the electric fuel pump (see WiKi) and refill with some fresh fuel.

"Fluid is Black" is not good, especially if it contains water!! 

A few thoughts - as a starter !!

[Footloose]

Ben,

What is the state of your batteries?  I would cut off the old lugs and crimp and solder new ones on the battery cables.  Don't forget those on the engine and behind the electrical panel.  Has the wiring harness upgrade been done?  If you have an amp meter in the cockpit it hasn't happened.  Also is there a relay for the glow plugs?  My
$0.02 for now.

[Stu Jackson]

Good advice.

For making sure about the electrical, simply bypass the boat wiring and run a + wire to the starter and a - one to an engine grounding bolt.  Most likely, it's the negative, so I'd do that first, it's easier to do with no risk of sparks!     

The secondary fuel filter bolt is on top of the filter housing and can be bled by turning the electric fuel pump on.  You should read the Critical Upgrades to determine if your engine start/fuel pump circuit is like the older boats like mine (i.e., pump runs always with ignition on) or whether with your later #886 hull number and M25XP, it is paralleled with the glow plug and oil pressure sender.  Here:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5078.msg41829.html#msg41829

If your fuel pump runs when the ignition key is turned, no further investigation is required.

There should be NO fuel leaking from the knurled knob (bleed screw) on the top of the engine and no need to crack injectors for basic bleeding.  Do NOT overturn or force the knurled knob.

Good luck.

[Jim Hardesty]

Just a word of caution.  Don't try to start the engine without water going to the raw water pump.  True the engine won't overheat for a while.  But, the raw water pump will burn up.   And the exhaust system is made to run wet, running dry may overheat it.  Also the manual cautions not to crank the engine for longer than 30 seconds.  After that you need to drain the muffler.
I just don't want you to make a problem worse.
Jim

[Stu Jackson]

Jim's right.  Here's how to do it, from the "101 Topics":

Winterizing an Engine on the Hard (Thanks to Maine Sail) - NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

http://forums.catalina.sailboatowners.com/showthread.php?p=873073&highlight=winterizing

[SPembleton]

Initially you say you cant get the engine started, then you say you can get it to run.  Exactly what is happening? Does it turn over? Does it fire but not stay running, does it run with the theottle all the way back, but stop when you move the throttle up?  It would help to know exactly what is happening.

[KWKloeber]

NEVER connect a hose to your raw water pump inlet - NEVER!!!

A pressurized garden hose, that is!
Ok to connect an open-ended hose to a bucket or whatever to run "sea" water through while on the hard, or to pump antifreeze thru.

kk