removing a rudder

andre · April 14, 2015, 04:13:38 AM

Hi everebody i am not very familiar with the site and my english is not very good, I'm loocking for a tech note or a post about removing my rudder to change the bushing because there is a loose when i move it. And the same time i will change my cutlass bearing. When i check the tech note the list finish at 2010. Is it normal. If possible if you have a couple of pictures for to do that it would be appreciate. Thank you.

Stu Jackson · April 14, 2015, 08:49:58 AM

Andre,

The easiest way to find (older) information is discussed in the sticky topic: A Quick Start Guide -- a.k.a. Too Much Information on this Website

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,5260.0.html

The Knowledgebase is very useful.

The Tech Notes Online stopped in mid-2010. We are in the process of updating them, please have patience.

KWKloeber · April 14, 2015, 11:17:43 AM

Quote from: andre on April 14, 2015, 04:13:38 AM
Hi everebody i am not very familiar with the site and my english is not very good, I'm loocking for a tech note or a post about removing my rudder to change the bushing because there is a loose when i move it. And the same time i will change my cutlass bearing. When i check the tech note the list finish at 2010. Is it normal. If possible if you have a couple of pictures for to do that it would be appreciate. Thank you.

"bushing" - are you referring to the rudder stock stuffing box being loose/leaking? What bushing?

In the mid 90s I resurfaced my rudder post with epoxy/graphite to form a new, lubricated bearing surface for the stock.

Ken

Stu Jackson · April 14, 2015, 01:11:10 PM

http://www.c34.org/faq-pages/techdata-rudder-packing-gland.html

Ron Hill · April 14, 2015, 02:31:09 PM

Andre : You didn't what kind of movement/play that you have in the rudder??

There is a nylon bushing between the rudder and the hull. If there is a lot of vertical play in that bushing you might want to check if you can add another bushing under the top of the rudder suspension. That will lift the up another 1/4" or so. Then the lower bushing will be closer or up against the hull.
I'm not that familiar with the "walk thru" rudder cap/upper suspension, but I seriously doubt that you have a packing gland problem.

A few thoughts

andre · April 14, 2015, 04:52:56 PM

Thank you for your help. The mouvement of my rudder is a horizontal left to right front to back. I will check if there is a vertical mouvement up and down. I see on the Catalina direct a kit ( rudder bearing epoxy kit) for injecting a layer of epoxy filled with tough colloidal silica and super slippery graphite powder between the rudder shaft and rudder tube. Is there somebody know that. I though that it was a bearing in the top of the tube and the base of the tube but it seems that there is no bearings. And also do i need to go down the rudder to change my cuttlass bearing. Thank you

KWKloeber · April 14, 2015, 10:51:54 PM

I didn't care for the mylar "patch" to fix the loose rudder stock as suggested by CTY.

So, I removed the rudder, mounted a drum sander in a bit extension on my electric drill, and reamed the heck out of the fiberglass tube from above and below. Placed a few drilled holes (1/4" OR 3/8"?) in the back of the tube in the lazarette and below, and I waxed the stock with two coats of Collinite paste wax and reinserted the rudder. And sealed the bottom a rag tied around putty tape in the space (like butyl tape but more malleable and cheaper.)

I injected a West Systems epoxy/graphite mixture (using the West Systems caulking-gun cartridges) to form a new bearing surface - worked the rudder back and forth to ensure the epoxy distributed as well as possible, and hoped for the best.
Info is available from West on how to make your own graphite-lubricated bearing surfaces.

I had a heart attack the next morning when the rudder wouldn't budge, but after some serious calisthenics by me and a Hulk Hogan type in the yard, we got it broken free. No problems with slop anymore. In fact, I would say after 18 or so yrs the rudder post is just starting to settle in -- I probably should have removed the post and followed up with fine sanding on the tube to provide a little margin between the tube and stock, but it's been okay as is.

I also epoxied grease fittings into the holes I drilled in the tube -- so I could periodically lube the stock with waterproof grease. Not sure that's advisable (collecting grit, sand?), but the option is there anyway. I only did that once.

Ken Kloeber
1984 C30 TRBS #3573

Ron Hill · April 15, 2015, 02:20:45 PM

Andre : I used the Mylar drafting film fix (.005 and .007 thicknesses) to take out lateral movement in the PVC rudder shaft.

It worked well and is still working well 20 years later!! Fairly easy and inexpensive to do!!

A thought

andre · April 15, 2015, 04:04:24 PM

Thank you Ron . Do you have a few pictures of your job and where can i find Your mylar drafting film. Do i need to get down my rudder Did you install that with glue in tube rudder. I am a little bit afraid to play with that. Can you show me a little sketch about the job. Thank you very much

KWKloeber · April 15, 2015, 08:07:38 PM

Andre,

I just uploaded the CTY drawing/write up for two repair methods to the Steering/Rudder section of the TechWiki --

Ken

andre · April 16, 2015, 05:07:35 AM

Thank you Ken i found the two methods. About the method with the mylar film it is possible to install as long as the tube or less? I am afraid with the other method because i don't want to have a hearth attack like you say. Excuse my English i'm learning because i leave my country (Canada) for 1 year with my sailboat and i need to be better with my language

KWKloeber · April 16, 2015, 07:08:22 AM

Andre,

CTY = Catalina Yachts

- I haven't done that method but I think the instructions give you the length.

-Note that with the resin method you dislodge the rudder stock (rotate the rudder back and forth) just as the epoxy kicks, so that you don't have a heart attack. I didn't have those instructions at the time (before these great forums!) so I let her cure overnight. If you dislodge the stock as instructed, no health issues would be anticipated. Note that the mix might kick differently (sooner?) inside the post (concentrating the heat) as it will in an open air container. That depends on the temps of the stock, tube, air, etc -- as the stock would act as a heat sink as the mix heats up. I would use the slowest curing hardener for maximum leeway. There's also low-viscosity penetrating resin that would flow easier around the thin space between the stock/tube. I would talk to the West and/or Mas Epoxy folks about using it for that application. I prefer Mas over West Systems and use that nearly exclusively.

Cheers

Ron Hill · April 16, 2015, 01:43:56 PM

Andre : I got my Mylar drafting film from an Engineering Company. They gave me some of the free samples sent to them by the Dietz Co. The samples had advertising on them, but who cares about the writing!!
I just cut strips and slid them down between the stainless column and the PVC shaft. I had a standard transom so your walkthrough will be a bit different, but same principle.

A few thoughts

andre · April 17, 2015, 04:16:31 PM

Thank you for your help. I am not sure about which method i will use but i this weekend i will remove the wall of the room and remove my water tank for to have much space to work. Also i need to change my cutlass bearing and i saw that it is possible to remove the shaft without to get down the rudder. I think there is a puller for that and i will check for rentig one. Good weekend