need a vang

[anaisdog]

I don't know if my 1986 came with a vang, or not, but it's not there now.  What I have, instead, is the main sheet coming from the cabin top to a block at the base of the mast (which is fine), into a block underneath the boom (which is the last of the equipment that was brittle white plastic and needs to be replaced, if we're replacing it) to a 3 block system (which doesn't match the manual which came with the boat) under the boom, then to the traveler.  It's a bizarre system.  I'd like to get a rope vang but I'm unclear, if I get that, can I get rid of the top block, under the mast and then how that would work with the 3 block system, since I've never seen anything like it before. 

thanks

btw, thanks for the advice about calling Guido.  he knew exactly what I needed for my traveler.

becki kain
hull 99
1986, Detroit

[anaisdog]

our set up is like this http://www.apsltd.com/images/CATEGORY/medium/652.jpg - but with 3 blocks at the boom, not two.  why would you have this vs a vang?

[KWKloeber]

our set up is like this http://www.apsltd.com/images/CATEGORY/medium/652.jpg - but with 3 blocks at the boom, not two.  why would you have this vs a vang?

Becki,

Who's calling it bizarre?  You or a "knowledgeable friend" - if so you're being mislead.  Look at your manual (pg. 26.)
It's the mainsheet setup - running the sheet out of the area between the deck and the boom -- not "instead of" a vang (pg. 25.)

You can do away with the block under the boom, which will reduce friction and "help" let the sheet run free under lighter air.  It's not a panacea though -- it's difficult to run free under really light conditions, but eliminating any friction helps.  ie, the sheet would run at an angle from the last boom block to the base of the mast.   But it still isn't a vang.  If you do that, the sheet will run at an angle alongside or aft of the vang, depending what type you get and the location of the boom attachment point.  You can also change all the mainsheet blocks to ball bearing which also will help reduce friction under light air. 

Do you want a solid vang (convenient, expensive, can support the boom w/o a topping lift) or a soft vang (less expensive, rope block and tackle)?  A soft vang can double as a preventer when you need one, or can be used as a lifting device to get a MOB back into the cockpit by hanging it from the boom.  Again, the manual it shows the OEM soft vang.


Cheers,
ken

[anaisdog]

can you send the manual you're using?  we're looking at the catalina 34 mk2 manual, online.  we're not at the boat right now

[KWKloeber]

can you send the manual you're using?  we're looking at the catalina 34 mk2 manual, online.  we're not at the boat right now

See at the tech-wiki online.

http://www.c34.org/wiki/index.php?title=Manuals

You have MK-I, right?  Why use the MK-II manual?

-KK

[anaisdog]

we're not at the boat so that was what the husband found.  if i'm hull 99, that makes me a mk1 right?  and yes, that is the correct manual.  so should i put a vang on, even though i'm not racing her, or just replace the single swivel block at the boom?  the person sailing with us yesterday suggested the vang (just a rope one) to keep the boom from bouncing in a gybe.

reading this - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-noW8PUQNCcNFRfR21WMzBWRUU/edit is pretty terrifying how bad my boat looks, in comparision to all the work this person did!  and I really need to do the traveler through bolts!

thanks

[anaisdog]

and good gravy, reading the (proper) manual, i'd be afraid to have the main up, since all they seem to talk about it reefing! 

if i put a vang in, like page 25, then the main would go from the turning block up to the aft single swivel block and continue through the rest of the blocks, like it is now? i've never seen a boat without a vang before so this is new to me (like everything else on the boat!)

[KWKloeber]

we're not at the boat so that was what the husband found.  if i'm hull 99, that makes me a mk1 right?  and yes, that is the correct manual.  so should i put a vang on, even though i'm not racing her, or just replace the single swivel block at the boom?  the person sailing with us yesterday suggested the vang (just a rope one) to keep the boom from bouncing in a gybe.

reading this - https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-noW8PUQNCcNFRfR21WMzBWRUU/edit is pretty terrifying how bad my boat looks, in comparision to all the work this person did!  and I really need to do the traveler through bolts!

thanks

Again, you don't "need" the block under the boom, so replace it only if you want to keep the current set up.

ok, the question is - do you know what a vang is for/what it does? And do you know what a preventer does?  Need to get back to the basics of sailing / sail control / sail handling before arbitrarily adding equipment!

kk

[anaisdog]

vang?  holds the boom down.  preventer?  keeps boom from accidently gybing.  or am I missing something else?

[KWKloeber]

and good gravy, reading the (proper) manual, i'd be afraid to have the main up, since all they seem to talk about it reefing! 

if i put a vang in, like page 25, then the main would go from the turning block up to the aft single swivel block and continue through the rest of the blocks, like it is now? i've never seen a boat without a vang before so this is new to me (like everything else on the boat!)

The mainsheet could go either way - mine runs to the block under the boom w/ my soft vang -- or you can run it to the base of the mast and cut the angle.

vang?  holds the boom down.  preventer?  keeps boom from accidently gybing.  or am I missing something else?

Basically, but what I am getting at is you have to know how/when to use the the equipment.  Are you doing a controlled gybe or is the boom slamming around?  No piece of equipment is a panacea.  A soft vang is a good idea, especially if you set it up to also be used as a preventer.
A safe gybe can be done with or without a vang, and having one doesn't necessarily make it safe, is what I am getting at.  People oftentimes rely on equipment rather than knowledgebase, technique. eg, while backing out of a driveway Fords(?) can sense crossing traffic and stop themselves. But it's not a substitute for the driver being aware of the traffic conditions!

A soft vang with a fiddle block and cam cleat is great for multi-purpose use per my 1st answer.  But more convenient is setting a soft vang to run to a rope clutch or a cam cleat at the cockpit as a rigid vang would be, but then it can't be used as a preventer -- so my point is to know exactly what you want to accomplish before buying equipment.

hmmm.... I suppose it might be set up to have a cam cleat and and still run to a cleat at the cockpit - would need to see about that.

Oh BTW, what did Guido end up setting you up with for your traveler?

kk

[anaisdog]

i do controlled gybes.  bring the main to center then let it back out.

[KWKloeber]

i do controlled gybes.  bring the main to center then let it back out.

Okay, I would add just a soft vang, not a rigid vang - and just decide whether to use a fiddle/cam cleat or you want to control it from the cockpit using a cam cleat there. 

Do you have an unused rope clutch by any chance?

kk

[KWKloeber]

url="https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-noW8PUQNCcNFRfR21WMzBWRUU/edit"]https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B-noW8PUQNCcNFRfR21WMzBWRUU/edit[/url] is pretty terrifying how bad my boat looks, in comparision to all the work this person did! 

thanks

WOW becki document was a great find - a super resource for thinking about upgrades, etc. 
It reads like a manual - "how to survey a catalina 34"  LOL and has a lot of good tips about what to look for.

kk


k

[anaisdog]

lol?  okay

but guido sent me control ends with cam cleats.  the ends of the traveler came right off

[Ken Juul]

Anybody close to Detroit that can help Becki out?  In person or pictures would be a big help.