broken wheel on Fico-Nico traveler

[anaisdog]

Hi, second post.  Hull 99, 1986 Catalina.  I think I have a fico-nico traveler but I can't tell.  It has these terrible old brittle white plastic wheels and, when I moved the traveler for the first time ever, since I bought the boat, the top, port side one, shattered.  I don't race my boat so I don't need something high end, but are the wheels replaceable, or do I need to replace the traveler?  I was thinking about going with the Gauhauer MT-1, if I have to replace.  Is there a better idea out there? 

thank you

becki kain
detroit, mi

[Stu Jackson]

Garhauer is THE best source for all your blocks and controls.  If you have pictures, call Guido, Mark or Bill at Garhauer and discuss it with them.  In the olden days they only used fax messages, but they most likely have dragged themselves into the 21st century by now and could discuss it with you over the phone if you got them some pictures.

IIRC, only the older C30s had those old (and curved) travelers, and as far as I know all C34s came with Garhauer travelers.  If the traveler track is straight, it is most likely Garhauer.

One other traveler control line trick:  Instead of having the cam cleats on the end of the cars, some of us have ordered sheaves there, and run the control lines back to bullet fairleads on the cabintop and place the cam cleats on the aft end.  This has two advantages:  1)  you don't need a slit in your dodger (if you have one) window, you can use a simple single hole; 2) it's easier to use, you don't have to reach all the way forward.  I'll see if I can find some photos and provide a link.

[Les Luzar]

Can you provide a picture of what you are describing? I am not sure what you are referring to. I have a 1987 C-34 and I believe that the mainsheet traveler was supplied by Garhauer Marine. Garhauer  does have mainsheet traveler upgrade hardware, so they are an excellent starting point, but even for them, a picture will be really helpful to see what you have and what is in need of repair.

[Stu Jackson]

Becky, look at the second picture here (click on it, it will get bigger)

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,7161.msg48500.html#msg48500

It's clearer to see on the starboard side.

I'll see if I have any more close up pictures.

[Stu Jackson]

Becky, try this:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2781.0.html

As always, click on the links in the discussions for more info.

Another:

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,2417.0.html

[anaisdog]

I will call Garhauer when I get home today since that's where my pictures are (and post the pictures here).  It would make sense that it is a Garhauer, not a Nico since the (soft) vang is Garhauer but at the same time, it seems like Catalina out these boats together with whatever happened to be laying around at the time.  Are there markings anywhere on the traveler which would tell me what brand it is? 

[Stu Jackson]

If it's straight and it's dark gray it's Garhauer.

If it's curved it's Nicro Fico, most likely.

If it's black it's most likely Harken, but doubtful, unless the PO changed it out.

[KWKloeber]

t would make sense that it is a Garhauer, not a Nico

Are there markings anywhere on the traveler which would tell me what brand it is?  

Becki,

Bottom line - you have a Nicro "X-Track" traveler, with a Nicro 4-wheel car.  
It IS NOT a Garhauer (I'm a Garhauer dealer, I know,) and IT IS an old Nicro.  Don't use up brain cells spinning your "wheels" (get the 'wheels' pun there?)  BaDumBum.

Nicro travelers were OEM on a 1986 C34.  It's either a #600, or #610 series (I could tell you exactly if given the track width measurement.)  
Probably a #610 and if the bolts are 1/4", then it's defo a 610.
The car is most likely a #587/588, and is defo that if the track bolts are 1/4".

They are neither Delrin nor stainless, and UV is what eventually makes the sheaves (ie, what you call 'wheels') get brittle, crack, and 'explode.'  Mine did the same.  

Any part can be rebuilt to OEM with new Nylatron sheaves (but it's not DIY because the sheaves are captive, ie, riveted on) and with new guide wheels and becket blocks on the car, and new cam cleats.  But then you still have a 3:1 system with no ball bearings.  However, i's worked for nearly 30 years and will work for another 30.

Or, you can upgrade to all ball bearing blocks and sheaves (except the car guide wheels - they can never be ball bearing) and be one medium step better than what you have.  But, the cost difference to take a giant step up to an ALL-ball-bearing, 4:1 purchase, MT-1 may be more a attractive option to you than totally rebuilding your old Nicro.

However, if you want to eek by with the absolute least cost right now, just have the port end control rebuilt for $115 (they need it for about a week this time of year).  Then, when the starboard sheaves explode rebuild it.  And eventually replace the car guide wheels (and probably cam cleats before those), and eventually the 2 becket blocks if the sheaves in those explode.  That would stretch out the cash outlay, but you still have the old system.  Perfectly workable, but not the best system after spending all the money for all the rebuilding of all the individual component parts.

PS: moving the end control cam cleats to the cockpit is nice -- and that can be done on the MT-1 at a later time - you just move the cleats and get sheaves for the end control.  It's minimal to install -- longer flat head machine screws needed, though.

Hope the above helps some,
Ken K

[anaisdog]

Stu, it is straight and black.  but no matter what it is, it doesn't work well.  it's a b*tch to move the cars and all the sheaves will shatter eventually.  I just forgot to post the pictures last night.  I will.  and thanks to all for the help.

[KWKloeber]

it's a b*tch to move the cars and all the sheaves will shatter eventually.  I just forgot to post the pictures last night.  I will.  and thanks to all for the help.

Becki, probably a dumb question, but have you removed the car to clean it up, free up the guide wheels on their axles, some dry lube, etc.? 
When you say car "s" are hard to move are you saying the car, adjusting the end controls, or what exactly is b*tchy stuck on it?

Ken

[KWKloeber]

If it's straight and it's dark gray it's Garhauer.

If it's curved it's Nicro Fico, most likely.

If it's black it's most likely Harken, but doubtful, unless the PO changed it out.

Stu,

I never knew that CTY used anything other than the curved Nicro or Garhauer.  But Becki's got my curiosity up -- so I looked around for photos to do some investigating. 

Interesting - if you look closely at hull #3 photo, it sure looks straight.  If you look at #200, it's curved.  Becki's #99 may be on the cusp? 

Possibly only straight Nicro tracks were available "in the beginning" and "n" hulls got those until Nicro produced the longer (than the C30) curved tracks ?

"Catalina forensics" can be very interesting sometimes.

-Ken

[anaisdog]

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10826951@N04/14667643346/in/photostream/

this the car which i shattered the wheel on, by moving it. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/10826951@N04/14690375312/in/photostream/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10826951@N04/14504207737/in/photostream/ - end caps
https://www.flickr.com/photos/10826951@N04/14690649865/in/photostream/

so it's definately straight traveler.  the soft vang is Garhauer. 

[Ken Juul]

I would send those pictures and measurements to Garhuaer.  If it is one of thier products, it may be possible to just replace the car and the end caps with current products, leaving your rail alone.  Get the upgrade with minimum work.

[Stu Jackson]

I agree.  However, please read the Critical Upgrades, since one very important one is to add a second bolt to hold the track down, 'cuz if you don't and have an accidental gybe the whole track could pull out.  Really.