Electrical Upgrade - Yet Another

[mainesail]

Great write-up on that Smart Gauge.  Although admittedly your testing is way over my head!   

But if I did not include all that the naysayers would be out in full force.... I was very, very skeptical of this product so I wanted to dot my I's and cross my T's for the testing. Bottom line is wire it up, set your battery type and let her rip... Within a few cycles it will be extremely accurate and will get more accurate as time goes on...

[Stu Jackson]

Steve, I know you have a lot on your plate now, but the setups for the "coulomb" counters was covered in the "Gotcha" topic included in the "Electrical 101" topic, in agonizing detail.

If I were you, I'd get a Smart Gauge.  No brainer given Maine Sail's tests.  He's THE guy to TRUST.

Have you reconsidered the positive from the starter as I mentioned earlier, it's just buggin' me...???

[Fred Koehlmann]

Seems I'm not the only one looking at revising out electrical this spring. The Smart Gauge does sound like a good fit and simple to install,... but is it only me, it looks big and "ugly", at least in comparison to the older Victron.

[Stu Jackson]

Frederick, yes, Maine Sail mentioned and photographed that in his writeup.

I see it no differently than my Link 2000.  I cut a hole in the fiberglass at the nav station, but mounted it on a piece of teak.

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,6353.msg41471.html#msg41471

Your boat, your choice.

The Smart Gauge is a smart choice, unless you want the extra features that come with the now-older style amp meters.

Maine Sail's review covered all the bases.

[Steve W10]

Frederick, I'm with you and MaineSail, it is not an attractive unit, looks like the designer had his kid do it.  But..... sure seems to be the right device.  What a great article by MaineSail.

I'm convinced on both the Smart Gauge and MC-614-H and now just deciding on an alternator.  Man the cost adds up quickly... even before batteries.

I think we're going to have to rename the thing a BOAFT, Bring Out Another FEW Thousand.

Stu, have another look at the schematic, the 1-2-both is always set to "off" or "1" (as graphically displayed earlier) so there is no connection through there from the starter to the House Bank Positive Buss Bar.  The Line at the Starter Buss Bar comes from the ProIsoCharger, there is no direct connection between those buss bars (remember the ProIsoCharger is not a Combiner).  Or..... am I missing something?

[Stu Jackson]

Ahh, just getting used to your weird system.  Forgive me.  You should make very danged sure you leave operating instructions, 'cuz most folks seeing a 1-2-B switch will have little idea of what you've accomplished here.  All because of the misnamed combiner...  Otherwise, nice job.

[Steve W10]

Hey hey hey, who you calling weird!

Yeah, I totally agree, but the only place I almost called it a Combiner was in my first narrative (I mean heck, it's even labelled in the schematic with ProIsocharger and part number).

And don't start on me about naming the terminals on my 1-2-both switch either..... simple guys like me need pretty pictures that make sense. 

Thanks again for all your help.

[Stu Jackson]

Seems I'm not the only one looking at revising out electrical this spring. The Smart Gauge does sound like a good fit and simple to install,... but is it only me, it looks big and "ugly", at least in comparison to the older Victron.

Frederick,

It just occurred to me:  there's no reason that the display has to be located in a "prominent" place at your nav station.  Since it's not something, like, say, your tach that you NEED to see immediately and/or all the time, there seems to be no reason it can't be located elsewhere.  For example, my PO for some "not-so-obvious" reason actually installed his old, big-box, butt-ugly Micrologic Loran receiver behind the sliding black door just forward of the nav station.  To use it, I just opened the door.  Not to get into any discussion of how useless it was down there, or anything...

For something like this that only has to be looked at periodically, you might want to consider an alternate location if it is visually disconcerting (and it looks like it might be!). 

[Steve W10]

I was thinking the same thing Stu, but it has a built in alarm and I'm not sure one would be able to hear it when tucked away.  It does allow for the installation of an external alarm, but that just complicates things again.  I need to keep it simple.

Maybe someone can come up with a decent looking sticker to put over it!

[Steve W10]

Well gents with a little help from my friends at C34IA I think I got 'er.

I wanted to order my stuff from MaineSail, but cross-border hassles proved prohibitive, so I donated on his web-site instead.  Thanks a tonne MaineSail, your help is very much appreciated (as is everyone's).

As mentioned earlier, my Battery Switch is a graphic display for my ease of understanding and makes it simple to blend the two banks if required.
1 has the House Bank feed domestic load,
2 has the Start Bank feed the domestic load in case 1 has failed and I need to use the radio etc., and
BOTH connects the entire system to get as much juice to the starter as available.

My 150 Amp CB in the Starter circuit is easy to access and will be used as an Emergency Starter Disconnect.

I went with Crown CR-235 6V Golf Cart batteries, more for availability and price; their numbers are slightly better than the T-105 but not enough to make a difference.

I tried to make it as simple a diagram as possible in case anyone else is doing something similar or cares to comment on any errors I've made.  Pin numbers are in the circles.

I've still got my ProMariner ProIsoCharger, so a combiner would make for a slightly simpler set-up and in hindsight I think better for that alone.

I will be changing the alternator pulley to 3/8" and de-rating it to 80% with the ext regulator.
The Balmar 621-100-SR-IG comes with an internal regulator and a clever way to make use of it in the event the external regulator fails; I've labelled it as Regulator Selection Switch.  It's a double throw switch with no "off" position and I believe I should shut the engine down before switching it.

The MC-614 External Voltage Regulator also has a warning function if one chooses to add a few more bits.  Pin 17 goes to ground if the system experiences Low charging voltage (<12.5V), high charging voltage (>15.5V), high alternator temperature (>105degC), or high battery temperature (>52degC).  Max current for all warning devices on that line is 500 mA, so I'll be putting in a 1 Amp fuse with a tiny LED warning light and buzzer (total 40 mA).  I know this effort is overkill but it's not tough and I like doing this kind of stuff.  In fact I left out of the diagram a test switch set-up that allows me to test the warning and/or shut it off if I choose.

I do realize that my shore charger with only 30 amps is underpowered for this set-up but I can live with that until it dies.

The last things I'll be doing are confirming with ProMariner and Balmar about my "Sense" inputs.  I think the ext regulator is looking for what the batteries require here, so I suspect that's what the ProIsoCharger would provide through the Sense terminal.
Then ordering some wire from GenuineDeals and doing the install.

Very excited about this and especially the SmartGauge.

Any further comments or suggestions are welcome, and thanks again to everyone.

I'll report back when it's done with images of the install and process.

Steve

[Joe Holmes]

Hi Steve,

Any updates?  I am considering a similar project and would love to hear how everything worked out.

Thanks

[Steve W10]

Hey Joe.

The installation went quite well with a shipment of wire from genuinedealz (my favourite - their new ordering tool is pretty slick with little images of the custom wire you are ordering).

Unfortunately this past June, July, Aug, and Sept were some of the mildest winter months we've seen here since I've owned the boat and I did very little sailing this year, in fact, only one night on the hook! (fortunately I had other distractions less dependent on nice weather, so I wasn't too heart-broken).

Initial impressions are as expected, really good!

• Extensive pre-planning always makes for an easier install.
  Fitment of the alternator went pretty well and I grabbed a few different belts to get the best fit (will post later).
  It runs a bit warmer than I expected, especially considering I de-rated it to 80% (still within the normal range - will post #s later).
  I changed out the pulley to the larger one to accommodate the 3/8" belt.  Kind of a PIA to get the torque setting correct though.  I thought I was clever using my clicking torque wrench in reverse on the hex internal pattern in the shaft itself and securing the nut with another wrench.... until I realized it wasn't actually working in reverse, so I went to my older style torque wrench.
  Tachometer is way off right now, and I suspect I may have to go back to the original pulley, but need to read more about that as the 3/8" belt may slip with it.  I actually think the better option is to recalibrate the tach; I think that has been written up a few times on this forum.
  Stuffing the batteries into that battery-well looked like it wasn't going to work, but I came up with a way and will also post that later.
  The Smartgauge?  Terrific!  Simple device (on the outside anyway) that gives you the information you need.
  MC-614? Very slick.
  ProIsoCharger? Added a tiny bit of complexity to the install, but I'm still very happy with it.  Admittedly, now that I've got more experience, I'd suggest a combiner / Echo Charge instead (as many have already suggested).

I'll try to get some more details and images of the install up in the next month or so.  Sorry I haven't gotten to this sooner.  If you're in a big hurry, please PM me and I'll try to give you some piece-meal stuff.

Steve

[Joe Holmes]

That's great Steve. I am in no big hurry.  I really want to convert my icebox and be less dependent on ice stops while cruising the coast of NS and Maine etc.  My house battery is a single group 27 and have the original alternator. So that leads to your project and the icebox conversion in order to keep the beer cold. ..at least she isn't asking to use a hair dryer...yet