Water in keel bolts?

[mregan]

Had some water in the bilge.  Sucked it out with a shop vac.  The section just aft of the mast I had almost completely dry.  Section behind that had a little water but just in one small area.  Was working on something else for 15-20 min.  Looked back in the bilge.  In the section just aft of the mast, there was a little puddle of water around each keel bolt.  Sucked the water out again. Came back the next day, water in the same spot.  Could water be getting in between the keel bolts and when I'm draining the bilge some of it works it's way up from below?  When I first splashed it this spring the bilge was bone dry for 2 weeks before it started raining so I know I'm not getting any water leaking in from the keel.

[Ron Hill]

mre : On you most recent survey or boat out of the water there are three obvious questions:

1.  Was there a crack in the keel to hull joint?
2.  When was that last time the keel bolts were retightened?
3.  Have you had a grounding sense the last time the boat was out of the water?

[Stephen Butler]

We had the same situation and tightened the keel bolts, etc.  Finally, we dropped the keel and added some sealent, then resecured the keel, and reglassed the keel to hull joint.  Also added some ss backing plates in the bilge for the keel bolts which were not actually needed, but made us feel good.   A dry bilge and no keel leaks since.  Hope this helps.

[mregan]

Just bought the boat in October.
Owner had a grounding about 7 years ago.  Had the keel removed, check, & re-installed by a reputable yard.  Surveyor notice the yard had built up the section where the normal Catalina smile usually was. No cracks when boat was pulled for the survey.
Not sure when the keel bolts were last tightened.  Can I tighten them while in the water?
No groundings yet by me.

[KINGAIR350]

Hello ,

If youve checked all the things that could / may be the problem that Ron mentioned then start checking other issues. I too had this same problem. Had it hauled inspected , removed bolts , etc . Remembered the water was very clear almost well drinkable. Long story short had a leak in the aft cabin is where I started, pulled the steering quadrant cover the tan box with all the screws that is screwed into the aft bulkhead and found my leak when i removed the LAST screw water came squirting out , the P.O. used a 5" long screw and punctued the aft H2O tank . Repaired it and started to check everything else H20 heater , Stbd tank , reefer drain , windows, mast boot seals . Long story again short no more water in the bilge dry clean . hope this helps.
 

[Ron Hill]

mre : Tighten keel bolts in the water?  NO as you are trying to lift a 5600lb keel with a socket!??!!

You need to haul the boat and have the keel supported with the hull on jackstands!!  My thoughts

[mregan]

Re-reading my original post I think maybe I wasn't too clear.  Like I mentioned, when the boat was splashed, for the first 2 weeks the bilge was bone dry.  Then we had some rain and I'm still hunting down the leaks.  Somewhere aft.

Anyway, I'm wondering if there may be small voids between the side of the keel bolt and hull.  Maybe water getting in a small void.  When I suck out the water int the bilge, water between the side of the keel bolt is working it's way out.

Also, from the grounding the PO had, the keel bolt/washer is recessed about 1/8-3/16" from the bottom of the bilge so they are the low spot in the bilge.  Could water be getting in a void under the bilge bottom?  When I'm sucking the bilge dry, water from under the bilge bottom is draining into the keel bolt recess?

What is under the bilge bottom, fiberglass or wood?  Anyone know how deep?  Was thinking of drying the bilge so at least the bottom was dry even if the area around the keel bolt had a little water, then drill a 1/4" hole about 1" from the keel boat down a 1/4"-3/8" and see if it fills with water.

[Ken Juul]

I don't think the water is coming up the bolts or through any voids.  It is collecting in the lowest spots of the  bilge.  If it was dry until the rain then you are chasing a leak.  They can be very hard to find.  Dry the bilge completely.  Pour a line of colored (red or purple, good contrast to bilge) Koolaid around the outside edge of the bilge and let it sit.  Any water entering will leave a colored trail.  That may give you a clue of the source.

[Stephen Butler]

We definitely had a keel leak as shown by water draining from the Catalina smile when on the hard.  The keel redo stopped that, but then we noticed that we now had fresh water in the bilge (yes, we tasted it).  We then started at the bow and 2 weeks later had chased down a number of leaks, from the anchor locker drain thru-hull, to the hot water heater, to a fitting on the stern water tank, and several in between.  Finally achieved that "magic" dry bilge, until of course it rained.  A final irony or stupidity...when we awl-griped our mast, for some reason we failed to cover the spinnaker halyard outlets at the top and bottom of the mast (we do not use a spinnaker) and simple covers could have reduced the amount of rain water that ends up in the bilge.  Next time.

[mregan]

Ken
Like the idea of the Koolaid, I'll give it a try.  I discovered the water heater was leaking so that was one leak fixed.  Definitely getting some in from the stern somewhere but I haven't been able to be at the boat when raining.

[Ron Hill]

mre : You mentioned no water in the bilge until the rains came. 
You will get water coming down the mast and you could have water coming from a soaked area inside the mast step. 

A few thoughts

[Indian Falls]

You certainly can tighten your keel bolts in the water.  The torque spec might be off a little but that won't matter because you are nowhere near the breaking point of those bolts at 100ft/lbs.  I easily lifted my keel off the ground when I dropped and re-bedded my keel.   If you don't think a 5/8'' bolt can't lift 600lbs....
If the search function is working, it'll be easier to find by searching for keywords "keel re-bedding". Use this link to get started: http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?action=printpage;topic=6842.0

You may find like I did that there is a void up the center of the keel stub that allows water to reach all the keel bolts if the outside or perimeter bonding of epoxy is compromised by ground or freezing in winter in the void.  I'm certain I had both happen prior to getting my boat.  I detailed my project with pics etc...  it wasn't such a big deal, but having a yard that will let you use the travel lift for 2 full days is very helpful.

[Ed Shankle]

I second Ron's comments. We've had a lot of rain in NE and the water that makes it into the mast and drains at the foot can take a while to all leech out. When you do Ken's cool aid trick also put some around the mast step.
Also, taste the water; if it's fresh, you can rule out the concern about coming in through the keel joint. You didn't mention the bilge compartment forward of the mast. did you clean that out as well?

Ed

[Rick Allen]

As a reminder, pre 1989 C34's had a wood sole under the glass in the bilge. If that glass becomes delaminated or has cracks, any standing water will eventually rot that wood.  I can tell you from personal experience that this is an expensive repair. 
You can see my repair pictures here:
http://public.fotki.com/sailorick/sv_painkiller/bilge-de-lamination/

[Stu Jackson]

Rick's writeup was one of the BEST.  Thanks for the LINK.  A verty good technique, BTW.

Anyway, just to add: you've had rain, right?  One of the VERY FIRST THINGS I learned was to use simple window waterproofing on the port locker and the lazarette. 

ACE Hardware is your friend.  3/8" works just fine.

Check out the KNOWLEDGEBASE, go to "C34 Tech Notes" up at the top of this page.  It's a simple spreadsheet.