novice Electrical question

[stevewitt1]

Hello All
I was looking at the schematics for 110V in the Manual for the 1988 MkI.  My boat is a 1989 Hull 854.  It appears that all the outlets feed their lines from buss bars.  The Black (hot) leg seems to go back from the outlets to a couple of buss bars that are supplied by black wires that come directly from the 30 amp main breaker.
Is this correct??  Then assuming no other load, any individual outlet could be expected to carry a 30amp load before tripping the main breaker.  I had issues when I took my 2500W inverter and attempted to supply my dockside connection.  It would fault the inverter even with no load on the system anywhere, even with the 30amp main switched off.  Before I start checking things (my wiring included) I thought I'd familiarize myself with the 110V schematics.  It just seemed strange that outlets are only protected by the 30amp main breaker.  If that is the case, are the outlets wired with heavy enough wire??
Thanks in advance for any help.
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.com and www.warbirdsix.com

[Fuzzy]

Steve:  No, the wires on the older C-34's are  not heavy enough.  For a 30 amp breaker the wiring should be a
minimum of 10ga.  I put in a new electrical panel with 15amp breakers on the outlet circuit.
Larry

[Set2sea]

Wow, How the heck do you do planes and boats? You must be retired!?

[stevewitt1]

Set2Sea
No, not retired yet but hoping to in the next year or so.  That's the reason I made the move back to my first love in boating, sailing.  If I retire, or partially retire, I should have a little more time to enjoy the trip there and back.  Of course, wind is free and that is a big consideration for the coming days of fixed income. 
My learning to fly happened on a bet with a friend.  Home on vacation he said he was going back to California, getting his CFI and moving back to Wisconsin to instruct and asked me if I'd take lessons from him.  He's like a "Fart in a windstorm and if BS was music, he'd be a one-man-band" so I took him up on it. Well, didn't he come back, so I learned to fly. Now having passed 1,000 hrs PIC and over 200 IA, my last hurrah owning a beautiful Commanche 250 partnered with the same friend now it's time to sell it and look for a LSA qualifiying plane like a Cub.  I don't need to fly at 9,000 ft but would rather fly at 900 ft and wave to those below and have a simple plane with a lower cost of operation.
Steve
visit us at www.ocontoyachtclub.com and www.warbirdsix.com

[Ron Hill]

Steve : The wiring of the 1988 and later C34s is different than the original 1986/87s!!

The wiring from the main 30amp double pole single throw breaker, then goes to a distribution buss bar and the outlets then take off and go to a 20 amp push in/out breaker and then to all the outlets.  As I recall it's 12 gage paired marine wire with a white/black/green wires.

Have never had a problem with any of Catalina's AC wiring.  My thoughts   

[stevewitt1]

Thanks Ron,
Last year I installed an inverter so I ran a #10 R/W/G cord from the inverter to the port coaming box. I plug that into the boats shorepower fixture to feed the panel.  Each time I do, the inverter goes into a fault mode.  I may have something wrong in the cord, or some issue in the panel or outlets (the PO installed a couple of GFI's) but time for me to identify it.
According to the schematics (if I'm reading them right) the neutral and ground legs remain isolated throughout the wiring.

Steve

[Ron Hill]

Steve : From the sketchy info you've given, I'd guess that maybe there is a problem with a switch of the neutral and ground somewhere?!?

You might want to retrace your wires and recheck your inverter by going in just after the 30amp breaker.  A thought

[Ken Krawford]

Steve, if you're running the output from your inverter directly to the shore power plug then are you not running your entire A/C circuit (battery charger, hot water heater, outlets) from a 2500 watt inverter?  If so, that would explain the fault.   

[stevewitt1]

Ken,
You are correct.  I made sure that the breaker for my water heater was off, then my charger off as well. Finally my main breaker off and still the fault.  Go Figure?!?!?
I was very careful when wiring both ends of the cord between the inverter and shore power plug but I've done a couple of pretty stupid things in my life so I can't rule out anything until I take the ends off and check.
Steve

[Stu Jackson]

Running an inverter to the shorepower connection is a brand new one on me.

Usually, the inverter either has an automatic transfer switch built in or you add a manual transfer switch to feed the electrical service on the boat to assure that the shorepower and inverter can NEVER come on at the same time.  Shorepower in to the inverter first, then back to the A.C. side of the panel for an automatic transfer switch.  Or shorepower to the manual selector/transfer switch, and inverter to the switch.

The other way is to not tie the inverter into the boat's A.C. system at all and just use the receptacles on the inverter with extension cords, not a good idea.

Please help us understand your inverter to shorepower inlet concept.  It's rarely, if ever, shown that way in any of the inverter wiring diagrams I've ever seen.

Steve, what specific inverter make and model do you have?

[stevewitt1]

Stu,
First let me explain myself.  I probably should have named my boat "Oleo Acres" as it is "one of the cheaper spreads"

Make and model, Chicago Electric 2000W continuous 4000W momentary.(yes, harbor freight)

Given the fact that I only paid around 129.00 on sale, I didn't want to put a 175.00 switch in. (I want to use the inverter for the occasional micro popcorn and watching TV or a DVD)
I have a female 30amp marine on the end in the coaming box and a standard male end under the galley to plug into the inverter.  About 3' or so of the 10ga cord stays in the coaming box.  Just enough to reach over and safely plug into the shore power plug. 
Theory:  Because I have to plug the inverter into the boat, there is never a risk of plugging the AC shore power at the same time and damaging the inverter.  I have to make sure my hot water heater is turned off.  Being a 1500W element the inverter should handle it but it would make short work of the charge in my 8D that feeds the inverter.

I hope that explains my rather antic logic.

Steve

[Ron Hill]

Steve : I've read and reread your wiring explanation and have no idea how your wiring is setup, maybe Stu does??

I can't understand why you didn't just add another breaker and hard wire your inverter in to the main AC panel?? Then the push ON, pop out OFF breaker would control the inverter??

BTW, I seem to recall that one of the Harbor Freight inverters that I saw, stated it was NOT for marine use!!!!  Hope it's not the same one as I saw.    A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

Steve,

I couldn't find your specific model, even after copying & pasting the Chicago 2000W you mentioned.  So, I found the 1500W model and looked into it.

If your inverter is anything like the 1500, it's designed to have the loads plugged into the receptacles on the inverter, and NOT designed to be incorporated into a boat's electrical system.  Kinda like what I mentioned earlier about only having an inverter where you have to use the receptacles on it with extension cords.

It also says it's NOT for use in the marine environment.

No bloody wiring diagrams either.  Bad, bad, bad manual

So, you got a good deal on a piece of ???

Here's the deal:

The inverter, as you know, is powered by BIG wires from the 12V batteries.

The inverter NEEDS to serve your A.C. systems as if it was the shorepower feed.

IF that was your intent.

Your concept, of having the inverter feed the shorepower coaming plug is ingenious.

'Cept it doesn't work.  You're making a loop.  Well, loop may be the wrong term, since theoretically it should work, but...

What you should do is reconsider your desire to avoid paying $175 for something you actually NEED.  Blue Sea makes one, like this:  http://www.bluesea.com/products/6337/AC_Rotary_Switch_-_OFF_%2B_2_Positions_120V_AC_30A

It's an example, maybe not the specific one you need, but it's close.

Anchor makes another panel mount one, and when the SEARCH feature comes back, do a search on 8032 or 8132 and read what I've done for another skipper.

I've never heard of an inverter powering a shorepower input.  That might be your issue.

You might want to consider reading the Xantrex and Mastervolt manuals before you go any further.

I'd buy the manual transfer switch, if it was my boat, and wire it to the boat A.C. system, since you seem to understand electrical loads.  My Freedom 15 I/C has an automatic transfer switch built in.  Works great, but I've also helped a fellow skipper install a manual transfer switch for his standalone inverter, which seems to be like yours.  Many of the newer inverters, even with receptacles on them now have built-in automatic transfer switches, a relatively new feature that was not available before, and then usually only on the combined inverter/chargers like our Freedom model(s).

I still think you have concept backwards.