Engine not turning over

[mregan]

Boat was put in the water today so I ran down for a few minutes to make sure there were no leaks.

Figured while I was there I would try to start the engine.  Never had a diesel before.  Previous boat had an Atomic 4.  Had the boat delivered last year and there was no problem with the engine.  Before I put it away I ran the engine to winterize it.  Had trouble cranking over but I knew the batteries were at the end of their life.  Eventually started and was able to winterize.

Bought new batteries 2 weeks ago.

Hooked up the engine battery.  Turned the key, alarm came on, pushed glowplug button for 30-40 seconds.  Pushed the start button.  Engine doesn't sound like it's cranking correctly.  Cranking sounds slow.  Pushed glowplug for 1 minute, tried again, same thing.  Tried again, same thing.
Went back down below.  Smelled a burning smell near the battery.  Didn't see any smoke or anything burnt.  Pulled the engine cover off.  No burning smell near the engine.

Checked the battery cables.  The positive connection at the battery terminal was very hot to the touch.  Never experienced that before.  Is that normal?  I brought home the manual to read tonight.  Flipped quickly through the troubleshooting pages near the back but didn't see anything.

Reading some of the engine posts here maybe it's a fuel issue but seems more like electrical.  Not sure what the engine cranking sound should be.  I'm expecting a typical fast engine cranking sound.

Any ideas?

[Ron Hill]

mre : WOW!! Where to start trouble shooting?!?  Battery cables should not get hot starting the engine.  Even turning over slowly, a diesel should start if the glow plugs are functioning, it is getting fuel and it has compression.

You need to check your electrical connectors at your "engine" battery and at the starter solenoid (you might also check the connectors at the battery selector switch). Also check the ground connections at the battery and main ground under the starter on the bell housing (#4 black wire).

Then you need to check the glow plugs.  Did you get about a 2 volt drop when you engaged them??

Did the electric fuel pump start "ticking" when you turned on the key switch??

After all the electrical connections are checked and found OK, check the glow plugs again.  If they are OK (they get warm/hot when engaged), then make sure the injectors are getting fuel (loosen the fuel connection on the top of a connector, turn the engine over and you should see some fuel seepage!

Being a new boat to you and you have no experience with a diesel you just might hire a good diesel mechanic and watch what he is checking (& ask questions). Preferably this mechanic knows C34s (like a mechanic that works for a Catalina Dealer). Then write it off as an "on the spot diesel lesson".  Good luck

A few thoughts

[mregan]

Thanks Ron.

This gives me a place to start at least.  I haven't had a chance to play around with the engine at all since I've bought her.  I've been too busy fixing everything else.  I'm hoping to get down this weekend for a while to poke around and get more familiar with the engine.  If I can't get it going, I'm going to call the marina mechanic and have him take a look.

I was hoping it would start up then I could start do some maintenance items one at a time.  Figured if I do one maintenance item at a time and the engine doesn't start then I would know it was something I just did.

[Footloose]

I would start by replacing the connectors at the cable ends.  The cable getting hot is an indication that you have resistance at the connection.  The starter draws a very large current and even a 1-2 ohm resistance results in a huge power loss (heat).  You will also get slow cranking.  You may also have enough power loss that you are not heating the  glow plugs.  Ron has written many times about soldering and crimping the lugs to the ends of the cables.

One other thougt is to do the solenoid upgrade if it has not been done.  You will only need to heat the plugs for 10 seconds or so after doing this.

Keep us up to date on how things are going.  There is a lot of help available on this board.

[Jim Hardesty]

Don't know if this applies to your engine.  My starting instructions cautions not to crank the engine more than 30 seconds.  If it is cranked that long I need to drain the muffler.  Water may back up into the engine.

[tonywright]

I would check that the connections on the battery are clean,  installed in the right order and tight: largest current draw cable first on the terminal, then next largest etc. (assuming you don't have a bus bar). I have found the need to snug up the nuts on the terminals from time to time. One spring this was a cause of the engine not turning over for me.

Make sure that if you use a wrench, the shaft is fully wrapped in electrical tape: avoid any chance of a short circuit when using a wrench near a battery!

Another thought: you said that you "hooked up the engine battery". Did you hook up the house bank as well?

[mregan]

Did not hook up the house bank yet.  I needed to pick up a strap to tie the batteries down.  I have 2 Group 31 deep cycle flooded house batteries.  Brand new, just bought last week.

[tonywright]

Take a look at this excellent article by mainesail, and see how your current (no pun intended) battery cables and lugs compare:


http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/battery_cables

Probably need an alternator/battery guru to comment, re running the engine with no battery connected to the alternator?  I wouldn't want to do this myself, but then I am no expert...still learning.

[mregan]

Went to the boat today.  Checked the battery connections.  Appear tight but I think I'm going to get new cables anyway.  They aren't the best cables.  Read an older post about the glow plugs.  The owner had to push glowplugs for 45 sec, try engine, push glowplugs for 45 sec, try engine, push glowplugs for 45 sec, try engine then it would start.  Figured I would give that a try.  On my forth try it started right up.  The poster ended up replacing the glow plugs which did the trick.  I think I'll try that and the solenoid fix and see how I make out.

[Ron Hill]

mre : Beside the battery cables/connectors needing checking, it sounds as though you need to look in Critical Updates and do the glow plug solenoid fix.  You should never ever need 2 shots of 45 sec. each!!  You might also invest in 3 new glow plugs from the sound of it! 

I surely hope that you are not looking at a amp meter in the engine instrument panel!! (see Wiring Harness upgrade!!)

A few thoughts

[Bobg]

sounds like maybe all 3 glow plugs aren working, if you get glow plugs, go to your local car parts place, I bought mine from GTC, around 6 bucks apiece.  They are NGK, do not go to a kubuta or catalina for these plugs, they cost too much there for the same plug

[mregan]

Bob
Do you have a part number for the NGK plugs.

[Stu Jackson]

http://c34.org/bbs/index.php/topic,4972.0.html

(from a search on NGK by Bobg)

[mregan]

Thanks Stu.  Never thought to search for NGK by Bobg. Just learned something.

[Ron Hill]

Bob : You are going to have to learn that you have a Kubota engine and that Kubota dealer has the "engine" related parts in stock!!  or you can go to Kubota on line and find them. 

You have a B7000 Kubota tractor engine!!