Deck moisture on Catalina 34

[Steve Weiss]

Hello. I'm looking at buying a Catalina 34, I found one that looked good and came to an agreement with the seller on the price, so I  had a survey done a couple days ago. Unfortunately, the survey turned up what appears to be fairly serious moisture in the deck. On both sides of the cabin from around the forward end of the jib track and extending forward 13 ft, with a width of about 1 ft, the moisture meter was pretty much pegged. The soundings were good though. The bolts on either side of each chainplate were sunk into the deck slightly. Not enough that I would have noticed but both the surveyor and the broker who is handling the sale said that it indicated perhaps the core was rotten right around the chainplates (I think this was on just one side of the boat but I'm not sure).

Additionally, on the starboard side a bit forward of that 13 sq ft area of high moisture readings there was another area of about 1.5-2 ft square where the soundings did indicate delamination.

We are having a boatyard that both the seller and I have used send someone to look at the boat and provide an estimate to fix things up. I'll know more (hopefully) when I get that and the full survey report in the next few days but in the meantime I was wondering if anyone else had encountered a similar situation and if so, what you did about it. Is it realistic (or wise) to hope that only the area that clearly displayed evidence of delamitation as well as the areas around the chainplates would need to be replaced? Or is it likely (given the admittedly incomplete information I have now) that the entire 13 sq ft on both sides of the cabin will need to be replaced as well?

The broker has told me that the seller is willing to renegotiate the price in light of this issue so obviously that will be pretty critical, but if anyone has any thoughts or advice I'd appreciate it.

[Steve W10]

Steve,

Good that the rest of the boat is alright, but that moisture is quite an issue.  You've likely already read about C34s with wet areas around the chain plates and stanchions but that one sounds excessive.

I had a much smaller area that I managed to fix from inside (which reminds me I need to finish up that thread) but yours will definitely have to be done from the top.

All wet plywood will need to be cut out and the delaminated section as well.  It's near impossible to replace the air with epoxy in those cases, and if you're cutting open the deck anyway, best to do it right.  Plus, in my case everything under the delaminated section was soaked too; a moisture reading from inside the cabin may help confirm this.
I got all of my wet wood out but would certainly replace anything over 15% (others will have their own numbers)

I suspect it will be a very expensive fix, but if done right, should be fine.

I think we'll all be curious of the recommended fix and estimate; please post details when you hear back from the boatyard.

Best of luck,
another Steve W

[Stu Jackson]

Steve, you may want to stop worrying for a bit.  What you describe sounds like classic chainplate maintenance as well as rebedding some stanchions.   The two stanchions most leak-prone are the ones just by the dodger, since the starboard one is the vent for the water tank and the port one is the vent for the holding tank. Plus they are the one most folks grab when they come aboard.

By all means have someone look at them, but YOU should be there, rather than depending on a report.

The means, methods and techniques for gouging out old wet wood in the deck and filling with epoxy, as well as correctly rebedding the chainplates and stanchions, are simply part of regular maintenance and are well documented.

When you get to that stage, we're here to point you in the right direction.

[Steve Weiss]

Steve- thanks for your reply, your experience is good to know. There has clearly been some water getting in below the deck, some of the wood paneling in the galley is discolored and some of the hardware inside the cabin top in that same area shows some rust. If it does come down to needing to have those entire sections replaced I guess I would be comfortable with that, provided we can come to an agreement on the selling price.

Thanks again and I'll report back when I get more information. Good to know there's another Steve W with a C-34  .

[Steve Weiss]

Thanks for the reassuring words Stu. I did see another thread somewhere that discussed moisture around the chain plates so that was in my mind here. Unfortunately I probably won't be able to be there when the yard sends their guy to look at it since I live a couple hours away (and they may already have done it). I have a good relationship with the yard though since it's where I keep my current boat and they've always been very good at discussing things thoroughly with me in advance of doing any work.

[Stu Jackson]

Steve, sounds like a plan.  While you're "waiting" why not read the Critical Upgrades topic, if you haven't already.  If you plan to do any electrical work, check out the "101 Topics," too.  Since you're in Maine, if you need to have any boat work done, Maine Sail is in, uhm, Maine, too.  His own website is here, and he contributes here regularly (he's one guy we can all TRUST completely):  http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/boat_projects  

[Steve Weiss]

Thanks Stu. Yep, I've been reading through the critical updates thread and if I do wind up buying the boat I'll be going through them to make sure they're taken care of. And I've seen Maine Sail's website too, he's got some great information there. I can honestly say that one of the factors that led me to a Catalina was the excellent online resources like his site and this one. I'll be sure to provide an update when I have one. Thanks again.

[Steve Weiss]

Here is the latest update: I got an estimate from the yard, about $4400 to repair the deck which is in the range of what I expected. Not as much as I feared in fact. The confusing part is that they say there is no delamination. This is at odds with what the surveyor found, that there was that approximately 1.5-2 ft sq area just aft of the foredeck that showed evidence of delamination. The guy from the boat yard (Portland Yacht Services in Portland, ME) said that they could repair it without having to replace any of the core.

Now I assume that in order to know for absolutely sure, core samples would have to be taken. Since it's not my boat I'm not sure whether that is possible or not. I'm curious as to how two experienced people, a surveyor and a guy who does fiberglass repair for a living, would come to such different conclusions. Fwiw, the broker handling the sale also feels pretty strongly that there is delamination there, and I think he is going to contact the service department at PYS to talk to them about it.

The obvious concern for me is, if I buy the boat based on what the yard is telling me and it turns out that the core is bad then I'm probably looking at a significantly more expensive repair job. So I'm wondering if anyone has encountered a similar situation, and how did it go?

[efhughes3]

The surveyor is going to be more pessimistic to cover his rear. The yard is the one with experience. So, I'd favor their opinion. I'm wondering if they can do a second contingency estimate, should it be worse than they think. Maybe use the higher of the two to negotiate with? Good luck!

[Steve Weiss]

That's kind of what I was thinking. This surveyor did a survey for me a few years ago and after I bought the boat I found that some of the issues he noted, while good things to be aware of, weren't things that really needed to be addressed. At this point I'm waiting for the broker to get back to me. He also seems to be on the pessimistic side, which hopefully will get me a better price.

[Ron Hill]

Steve : If you really want to know what is going on, did you accompany the surveyor when he examine the boat? - I'd guess not!!

Enough said.  A thought

[Steve Weiss]

Yes, I was there. Not for the entire survey but when I got there he went over everything with me. I could hear a clear difference in the soundings on the deck between the area he said had delamination and the solid areas. I was not there when the guy from the yard looked at it to prepare the estimate although I did talk to him about afterwards. Still, I don't know what led him to conclude that the deck was not delaminated. What I'm wondering now (because I haven't had experience with this problem before) is, can the core be rotten (thus the dull sound from the hammer) but there is no delamination? Maybe the deck still felt solid to walk on, or there is some other way to tell? But even if that's the case the bad core would still need to be replaced, I would think.

[Steve W10]

I know this is going to sound alarmist and extreme (and I'm not usually like that), but just know that it's only my opinion, others will likely disagree.

I question what the boatyard has told you.  The cynic in me thinks that they have presented you with some GREAT news, only $4400 to solve the problem vice the cost to do the real repair that would scare both you and the current owner out of having it done.  A pegged or almost pegged moisture meter is significant and resultant problems just get more expensive to fix.

I'd track down a moisture meter and go nuts on the boat, including readings from inside, those were the most telling for me.

Sorry for my negativity, I hope it's much better news.

Steve

[Steve Weiss]

Steve, don't apologize- informed opinions of all kinds are what I'm looking for. I've been thinking of doing just what you suggest, not only that but maybe testing out the deck soundings with a plastic headed hammer i have (carefully of course). I also want to walk on the affected part of the deck and see what it feels like. And there's the possibility of having another yard take a look so as to get a second opinion.

[efhughes3]

The moisture meter is a good idea. But, honestly, I think most of the boatyards I've dealt with have been pretty blunt with news/estimates. Unless they have a lot of competition, or not much work, then I suppose anything goes. A second opinion never hurts.