Burnt Out Wiring - Lighting Circuits

[Fred Koehlmann]

I just came back from a week of vacation sailing, where after the first night we lost our cabin lights. Long storey short, I eventually tracked it down to a completely burnt through wire behind the electrical panel. Frankly I was surprised to see that the take-offs for the power to the lights were all done with these snap on connectors.

So why did it happen? Last year (first season we sailed the boat) I noticed that there was wetness behind the panel. Turns out that the stanchion vent's through deck was leaking. Aside from being a bad vent, it also is a bad idea to have a through deck fitting that people can grab and pull on (loosening the seal). Had I known that the reason the nav lights were not working last year was because they had already been burnt through, I would have fixed this sooner.

Luckily this last winter I replaced the holding tank (need to get back an update that posting), and also moved the vent to a new location to exit by the forward port hanging locker. As for the stanchion vent... I removed the stanchion, ground off the thru-deck piece, epoxied the deck closed and re-bedded the stanchion. Now the space behind the electrical panel is dry. But I guess it took until this season for whatever oxidized wire was left, to burn out.

So there is more than one reason to get rid of those stanchion vents.

[Ron Hill]

Frederick : In another post I just mentioned those *#^!+ blue connectors !!  

I'd advise any C34 owner that has trouble with the cabin lights or the running lights to go to each cabin light and you'll find one of those blue connectors.  Remove them and do some rewiring - it will save you a lot of trouble shooting and FIRE worry.
(I'd turn on the cabin lights and the running lights would come on! with NO cabin lights)

It took me an entire day and I removed(blue connectors) /reconnected all that wiring all except one - which the factory managed to get at a bulkhead so that I couldn't get at!!

A thought

[mainesail]

This is why we have the ABYC standards and why builders should follow it. Those connectors do not meet ABYC standards and should not be used on a boat. I don't know why they are used at all, or how they are legal in any use, but they still sell a boat load of them.

If your lighting, or ANY other wiring has those connectors get rid of them ASAP.. 55% of boat fires are electrical in nature and these are prime examples of the "why's".... This is production boat building, cost cutting, at its prime...

The other "issue" in that photo is that it appears they were "hidden" behind some wire loom... This just compounds an already bad idea....

P.S.

Frederick,

May I have permission to borrow your photo for use in the ABYC discussion list? I would like the wording to be stronger around this type of connector and your photo illustrates the point very well..

[Fred Koehlmann]

Hi Mainsail,

Yes, you may repurpose the image. Out of curiousity, what connectors should be used. Even at our marina they did not have anything other than lug or bullet type connectors. I'm ashamed to say that I had to go to Canadian Tire and they also only had this type of connector.

I house construction the building code requires that any electrical connection be in an electrical box, and it MUST be physically available (i.e. not hidden). Is there a similiar requirement for boat construction?

Cheers, Fred.

[Ron Hill]

Fred : It appears to me that that "blue connector" is a cheap way of getting 2 leads from one wire!!. 

I twisted my wires together soldered them and then put a end connector (which I crimped) to cover the solder joint. 

[Fred Koehlmann]

Soldering is so dependant on an individuals skill and the degree of accessibility of the wiring. There should be a simple, standerdized way to make a consistantly solid mechanical connection! I guess the boating/RV industry isn't there yet.

[Ron Hill]

Guys : Fred is correct as it's not easy to solder those wires.  It's old untinned #12 and #14 wire.  

I have an old 1500W Weller gun and just make sure to scrape the wire until it's shinney.  I also still have some of the lead (gasp!!) rosine core solder - that works GREAT, because it flows nicely.

Maybe there is a boat electrician out there that knows of a mechanical connector that will do the job ??

It has to be a 3 wire butt connector.  I use a Klein crimper, then both crimp and solder.

A few thoughts

[Stu Jackson]

Soldering is so dependant on an individuals skill and the degree of accessibility of the wiring. There should be a simple, standerdized way to make a consistantly solid mechanical connection! I guess the boating/RV industry isn't there yet.

Fred, as long as I've been doing it, butt connectors have worked for me.  I add "Liquid 'Lectric Tape" and they last forever.  I have an Anchor crimper, although not as sophisticated as Maine Sail's it works.  Just pull hard on 'em and if they stay put then, they will for a long time.  Better yet, use Maine Sail's shrink wrap, too.  He's VERY good at it and his website and his Musings on co.com are very helpful.  Ron's soldering has very good points, too, especially for older wiring.

Your boat, your choice.  :)

[mainesail]

Maybe there is a boat electrician out there that knows of a mechanical connector that will do the job ??

Yes, marine electrician here, and it is called crimping with the RIGHT tools....... The only thing I regularly solder on boats is the pin of VHF cables but only because I don't like the center pin crimp connectors..

Please DO NOT solder on your boat unless you KNOW how to solder...... DIY solder joint failures are soooo common in my everyday work that it has become a running joke.. Roughly 95% or better of the soldering I see on boats is NOT correct and fails or corrodes due to improper technique.

If you are competent a crimp THEN solder can work fine but most do not own the tools or terminals to do a proper crimp then solder. You should NOT tin/solder then crimp! The terminals for a proper crimp/solder termination are not the same as crimp only and neither are the tools...

The problem with solder on boats got so bad that the ABYC specifically banned solder as the sole means of mechanical connection and no amount of wire twisting, such as a Western Union splice, counts as a "mechanical connection"...

Don't get me wrong I see plenty of bad crimps but most are done by DIY's with Dollar Store crimp tools.... Worked on a 1979 Sabre 34 on Thursday and every factory crimp, on bare copper wire, is still in great shape. Sabre used the proper tools and that is why at 33 years even without tinned wire the boats terminations are still in very good shape.

The only thing in dire need of work was the welding cable Sabre used for battery wire and the factory Westerbeke wiring harness the factory crimps were doing just great.....

[lazybone]

++++ what Mainsail said.

[rjengelhart]

Need some help.  Anybody know a source for recessed cabin lights for a mark II?  Seems the socket is bad.

Thanks.

vr
RJE
SV Music

[John Sheehan]

Catalina Direct carries a LED replacement for that light.  Just installed one on our boat and the light is better than the halogen version.  http://www.catalinadirect.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=2043   Their model number is Z2772.

John

[DaveM]

I have used these Hydralink connectors with great success. Their heat shrink and hot glue seal well around and between two wires. I have no affiliation other than satisfied customer.

http://sherco-auto.com/hydralink.htm

Goodwinds
DaveM

[Roc]

This is what I bought that fits into the recessed cabin lights. 

https://www.superbrightleds.com/search/led-products/10HP-LED%20Disc%20G4%20White%20Lamp%20/