Battery charging and charger location

[Bobg]

Hi all, I have recently purchased a 1988 Cat 34,  just got back from the boat and when at shore power, I don't have any battery power in the morning to start the engine, especially if I run the fridge.  I must revert to my dedicated starting battery, it seems my charger isn't putting out, I can hear a humming noise in the rear of the boat from inside but can't seem to find the thing.  I just got the boat and am new at it.  Also when running the engine, the gauge on the engine panel puts out 12 volts, then after a while, jumps to 14 volts. normal?  The batterys (2) are located under the setee next to the sink, the starting battery is behind the engine with a seperate switch.  When I find the charger, should there be a green light/red light to show charged or "charging?"
I have spent a hour looking through the archievs and can"t quite seem to come up with an answer,
The shore power is plugged in, circuits are not popped and all things AC work, just can't top off the batteries.  Is there a way I can check at the battery cables if the charger is putting out?  with cables disconnected should they read voltage?
thanks much everyone, sure do love the boat.

[Stu Jackson]

Bob(?)

Welcome!

1.  What's your name, hull # and year?  You can add this to your signature so you don't have to retype it all the time.  See:  http://c34.org/bbs/index.php?topic=1506.0

2.  Charger output -- What kind of charger is it?  You can find out if it is working if you measure the voltage at the batteries when the charger is connected.

3.  Fridge - The fridge shouldn't have anything to do with it, except that it sounds like you have either a bad or poor charger that is leaving you with dead batteries. 

4.  Searching - To find the charger, you'll have to follow the wires from the batteries.

5.  What's charging your separate start battery?

6.  Engine panel voltage - what alternator and regulator do you have?

7.  All AC working should have nothing to do with your 12V system.

8.  I recommend that you read Jim Moe's electrical article, which will describe the basic boat setup and ways to improve it.  See: http://www.c34.org/projects/projects-electrical-system-upgrade-2.html

You're asking a lot of very good questions that will require you to do some additional research, learning more about the C34 electrical system, determine what changes your PO may have made, and then provide us with more specifics so that we can continue to help. 

[Kyle Ewing]

In my 1990 (hull #1010), the original battery charger was in the port cockpit locker, all the way aft close to the hull.  It was difficult to find if you weren't looking for it.  If you find you have to replace the battery charger, make sure the cables are sized appropriately.  For the length of the run, the existing wires were undersized based on standards posted here and elsewhere.

Kyle Ewing
#1010 Donnybrook
Belmont Harbor, Chicago

[Ron Hill]

hsnt : Just because you can hear the humm, doesn't mean it's connected to anything but the shore power input!!

Research your system and then with the information that Stu suggested, we probably can help you!!

[Ken Juul]

hull 1090 (1990) had the original charger on the stbd side of the Lazarette. attached to the back side  of the hanging locker wall.   VERY poor access through the small hatches on the walk through transom.  Also very far from anything else electrical.  Black box roughly 12"x4"x5".  It does have red and green lights on it, I think red was power to the box, green was 12 v out.  It has a fuse under the cover.  Can't remember if it protects the input or output side, but I had to replace it about once a year.  I think  that it will still hum without an output, I too drained my batteries more than once thinking everything was ok.  It has been a couple years since I replaced my charger, hope my memory isn't too far off.  When I replaced the charger I installed in under the chart table.   

I would also check the condition of the batteries, either pull them out and have them checked or buy a hydrometer and check the acid level.  As has been written here so many times.  Check all the connections for tightness and cleanliness.  Bad connections are the root of most electrical problems.

Welcome, we have all been new owners, don't hesitate to ask if you can't find the answer.

[skip]

In my 1989, I finally found the originally installed charger in the engine thru-hull access locker in the head, tucked underneath the switch for the drain pump.   Not a good place for electrical access.

-Skip

[Bobg]

Thanks everyone, will have to do a dedicated contortunist search, and get back to you all, I did get a lot from the archieves, so far the gist I get is that "it could be anywhere" I did do a short search but with the car full of people wondering what was taking so long, and the boat 3 hours away, will have to get back after the fourth,   Thanks  Bob

[Stu Jackson]

Bob

If you're planning to go out for an extended cruise on the 4th, you may want to consider doing the detective work before then so you can have full batteries.  I know, I don't live 3 hours from my boat as you do, but why ruin a great long weekend.

Please, again, your hull #, etc.?

[Footloose]

I have to agree with Stu.  I purchased a 1988 last spring and spent last Father's Day at the mooring as it wouldn't start.  On the Fourth of July I had to sail up to the mooring as again it didn't start on the way in.  It should start as reliable as your car.  Some detective work is in order.  This stuff isn't hard but it can be time consuming tracing wires and looking for corrosion.  I have found that trouble shooting goes fastest when I am alone.  Rarely does a "helper" help with the process.  The admiral just makes my patience shorter.

PS Had a great sail this Father's Day.

Dave

[Ron Hill]

hsn : To take Stu's advice to another level. 
I'd recommend that you take a portable battery charger and forget about the built in charger until you get some time to check and trouble shoot.  That way you'll know that your batteries are at 90%+ when you go out for a cruise.  If you have the stock alternator(painted the same color as the engine) I wouldn't count on it to get the batteries up - as it will have enough trouble just keeping the charge up!!   

[Footloose]

Bob,

I just reread your original post.  I am wondering if your charger is connected to your batteries.  The battery cables don't supply the current from the charger.  There usually is a second set of ring connectors to put under the screws.  There should be two reds cables and one black.  These are a lighter gauge than the starter cables.  There should be zero volts at the starter cables with them disconnected and the charger on.  The voltage across the charger should be 14.2-14.4.

Hang in there.  This board is great and after you get all the info help will be on the way.

[SteveLyle]

A few comments:

You're hearing the charger humming, but the batteries don't appear to be charging.

- I support the advice you're getting - trace the wiring, and diagram it out so you'll have a record of what you've got.  It's quite possible that the charger was not wired directly to the batteries, but is wired through the battery selector switch.  Shouldn't be that way, but if it is, when the switch is 'off' the batteris wouldn't be getting a charge.  (Only if it's wired to the "C" post.  If it's wired to the 1 and 2 posts, then the batteries would get charged even if the switch is off. - added 10/19/08 Stu)   Of course, the other option is that you have a bad connection somewhere.

- One troubleshooting suggestion - when you hear the charger humming, check the voltage at the batteries.  You'll need a multimeter for that (and for almost anything else you'll do electrically on your boat).  You should see 13+ volts.  If you don't, then flip the battery switch.  If that doesn't fix the problem, then you've got a bad connection somewhere.

- You're seeing 12 volts when you first start the engine because most voltage regulators don't immediately max out alternator charging current - they either ramp it up slowly, or have a delay time built into them.  They do this to take the alternator load off the engine at start up.  When you see 14 volts, it's because the voltage regulator is telling the alternator to start working.

- If you're hearing a humming that is your battery charger, it means your charger is technologically old, and I would consider it obsolete.  Modern chargers don't hum, or at least you can't hear them, and they have intelligence built into them to vary the charging profile to fully charge the batteries without harming them.  It's referred to as 3-phase charging, which you'll find in your searches.  Also the Calder book - Boatowner's Mechanical and Electrical Manual - it's THE reference for this kind of work.

- My original charger (the humming one) was under the galley sink.  Not sure where else one might hide one, but if it's humming you ought to be able to track it down.

Steve